Carlton Cobra frame - curved stays

[carpenter]

I sure that I remember having a catalogue with a Cobra frame listed (about mid 70's?). I used to lust after Cobra and kept the magazine under my bed along with several other publications

 

[Spokesmann]

Perhaps he played golf with a manager .

Ha maybe!

I think it could possibly be made by a Carlton employee. It wasn't unknown for them to assemble bikes for themselves from 'bits'... Dave Marsh is now aware of this machine but is on holiday riding a TI Team Raleigh I believe! He will have a look on this on his return. Thanks to @biggs682 for raising this via the Carlton Restorations FB page.

 

[Spokesmann]

No ruffled feathers, snobbery or Carlton hating here. I love the brand I raced on a Cobra as a Kid....

View attachment 470562 I also have a Cobra now along with a Carlton Pro..
View attachment 470563

I worked in a Raleigh five star dealer and PDI'd, repaired and rode hundreds of carlton bikes.

I just don't understand why a master builder would leave the workbench where he was building high class 531 frames, walk over to the production line, pick out an unpainted Tru-Wel frame, take it to his bench, dismantle the rear end, rebuild it with a hi-ten curved seat stay, walk back to the production line to have it chromed and finished....then try and find it again.

The Carlton frame catalogues usually contained one ladies frame (Courette) and one 20-30 frame like the Grand Prix as well as the more expensive stuff. I don't ever recall a catalogue with the Cobra / Corsa etc frame for sale. Certainly in our shop we ordered such frames from the dealer spares catalogue and not from a publicly available catalogue.

If someone could point me to a Carlton frames catalogue I'd be interested to know how much more an all-chromed Cobra frame cost than it's stablemates and how much cheaper the Dynamic Clubman was..

Shaun, you need to rebuild that frame...!

 

[midlife]

Ha maybe!

I think it could possibly be made by a Carlton employee. It wasn't unknown for them to assemble bikes for themselves from 'bits'... Dave Marsh is now aware of this machine but is on holiday riding a TI Team Raleigh I believe! He will have a look on this on his return. Thanks to @biggs682 for raising this via the Carlton Restorations FB page.

I did mention further up the thread that there were a number of "back door" frames made this way but the OP is adamant it was a genuine order from Carlton.

 

[Spokesmann]

I did mention further up the thread that there were a number of "back door" frames made this way but the OP is adamant it was a genuine order from Carlton.

Is that what back door means?

 

[ladiek]

I have had a long chat with Dave Morris about his days at Carlton and his thoughts on the days before he joined the company.
Apparently, Kevin O' Donovan who was Managing Director was also a great innovator and amongst his designs was a frame using oval tubing. He knows of two examples of this frame.
Regarding my frame, he had not heard of a curly stay frame but that didn't mean to say that one [or more] was not built in the factory before his time - late 1960's.
Kevin O' Donovan wrote this introduction to the 1962 Carlton Catalogue :-
Whilst our design staff are always happy to assist our customersin compiling specifications to meet their individual requirements --- etc.
A Special Order Form must be used and submitted through a Carlton dealer.
The fact that I bought this bicycle from an avid collector of Carlton bicycles' son, who had many in his collection, suggests that the curly stay Cobra frame was a result of a Special Order.
Kevin O' Donovan would probably had some input in the design at the very least in my opinion.
My only interest is out of curiosity - does another exist, or was another one or more, ever produced.
I suspect that my frame could have been finished in c. 1965 /1966 due to the "early" style of script lettering used for the decals.
The 1966 Carlton Catalogue state thats the Cobra frameset can be bought separately.
The current position is, that it is being overhauled in every respect and that in a few weeks time, this doddery old nerd will have a go at riding it - even at 83 years. So sorry folks, it's not for sale !
If anyone is intersted, I'll measure the diameter of the Sturmey Archer seat pin and I'm pleased that the high flange hubs are BH Racelite.
Ride safely.

 

[Illaveago]

I have had a long chat with Dave Morris about his days at Carlton and his thoughts on the days before he joined the company.
Apparently, Kevin O' Donovan who was Managing Director was also a great innovator and amongst his designs was a frame using oval tubing. He knows of two examples of this frame.
Regarding my frame, he had not heard of a curly stay frame but that didn't mean to say that one [or more] was not built in the factory before his time - late 1960's.
Kevin O' Donovan wrote this introduction to the 1962 Carlton Catalogue :-
Whilst our design staff are always happy to assist our customersin compiling specifications to meet their individual requirements --- etc.
A Special Order Form must be used and submitted through a Carlton dealer.
The fact that I bought this bicycle from an avid collector of Carlton bicycles' son, who had many in his collection, suggests that the curly stay Cobra frame was a result of a Special Order.
Kevin O' Donovan would probably had some input in the design at the very least in my opinion.
My only interest is out of curiosity - does another exist, or was another one or more, ever produced.
I suspect that my frame could have been finished in c. 1965 /1966 due to the "early" style of script lettering used for the decals.
The 1966 Carlton Catalogue state thats the Cobra frameset can be bought separately.
The current position is, that it is being overhauled in every respect and that in a few weeks time, this doddery old nerd will have a go at riding it - even at 83 years. So sorry folks, it's not for sale !
If anyone is intersted, I'll measure the diameter of the Sturmey Archer seat pin and I'm pleased that the high flange hubs are BH Racelite.
Ride safely. View attachment 472020

I hope you have lots of fun riding it . It is an interesting Carlton .

 

[Proto]

...................
Apparently, Kevin O' Donovan who was Managing Director was also a great innovator and amongst his designs was a frame using oval tubing ..........

Mate of mine had an oval tubed Carlton back in the day. A track frame, fully chromed, oval top tube (not sure about down tube). This was in the very late 60's or early 70's.

I lusted after it. I was riding round on a 1965 Carlton Capella Clubman at the time, very similar to the one shown earlier in this thread (mine didn't have chrome forks)