Can helmets make things worse?

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therams

Well-Known Member
Location
Manchester
Without wanting to spark another mass debate.

How often do helmets make things worse?

I am not talking about comfort / coolness here. Just injuries.

For me if they improve safety 10% of the time but reduce it 9%, then I will take the 1% improvement any day.
 

John the Monkey

Frivolous Cyclist
Location
Crewe
Depends on the way you approach the question. The most convincing arguments to me are the population level ones, rather than those related to specific individual safety.

As I understand them;

1) The idea that helmets are "necessary" or compulsion by the state can lead to fewer people cycling.

There are studies suggesting that an increased number of cyclists brings an overall benefit in terms of casualty reduction among cyclists as a group that outstrips the effect of compelling all cyclists to wear helmets.

2) There is some evidence suggesting that drivers are less cautious around cyclists wearing helmets, leading to more casualties (typically in incidents that the helmets are incapable of protecting the wearer from).

3) Statistically cycling is a relatively safe activity. If helmet wearing becomes a barrier to someone taking up cycling, and they do not compensate with some other exercise/activity, it can be argued that they are more likely to reduce their lifespan than they would be had they cycled "unprotected".

Personally, I wear a helmet whilst cycling - I would not support compelling others to do so (or not).

You can get a better overview of the arguments here; http://www.cyclehelmets.org/ including links to the applicable studies.
 
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therams

therams

Well-Known Member
Location
Manchester
I know statistics can be easy to manipulate, but I am interested in a per indecent type of figure.

This sort of thing; for every 1000 indecents, helmets helped X people but caused injuries to y people. If x > y, then for me a helmet is the right choice.

I am not a great believer in compulsion, adults and parents can make up there own minds.
 

John the Monkey

Frivolous Cyclist
Location
Crewe
therams said:
This sort of thing; for every 1000 indecents, helmets helped X people but caused injuries to y people. If x > y, then for me a helmet is the right choice.
I don't think you'll find anything like that - it's a very complex question. (And tbh, I'd doubt any study presenting such a finding). From the article linked below;
In this same case, the QC under whose instruction I was privileged to work tried repeatedly to persuade the neurosurgeons acting for either side, and the technical expert opposing me, to state that one must be more safe wearing a helmet than would be the case if one were not. All three refused to do so, claiming that they had seen severe brain
damage and fatal injury both with and without cycle helmets being worn. Cycle helmets, in their view, were too complex a subject for such a sweeping claim.


It is important to understand what bicycle helmets are designed to do;

http://www.cyclehelmets.org/papers/c2023.pdf

And to read up a bit and make your own choice.
 

marinyork

Resting in suspended Animation
Location
Logopolis
I've not seen any statistics at all. The point is it's existential quantification. I'm not sure I see it as x > y as you're comparing apples with oranges.

I agree with John the Monkey that it's more meaningful to talk over the entire population about the above as he does.
 

garrilla

Senior Member
Location
Liverpool
That level of statistics does not exist.

MrsGarrilla nagged and nagged me to start wearing a helmet and I resited for ages, coming up with evidence for her to stop nagging me. I trawled the web (and the library at the Uni) for real data. I then met someone from Cycle Helmet Research Trust who works at the Uni. He told me the jury's still out and one of the reasons is there is little evidence either way, especially with regards to incident data as this is rarely collected except in the case of deaths where there was an increasing incidence for riders that were killed in RTAs to be wearing a helmet - yet this was probably more to do with higher incidence of helmet wearing than safety issues. There is some fruitful evidence on slow speed collisions in which the helmet will limit contusion related injuries and that the impact generated at high speeds wll destroy the helmet and the rider. There is perception data from road user surveys about the 'dangers' of cycling and this indicates, slightly, that helmet-wearing may make roads more risky as motons and riders believe that cyclists are safer if they are hit while wearing a crate, but this is suppositional and not factual.

In the end I decided to wear a helmet for mrsG's piece of mind and that it offers a little more visibility to the painfully unobservant motons. At the end of the day I'm as likely to be injured through many other things I come in to contact with during the 18hrs I'm awake, and feck knows what might have me off while i'm sleeping.

I'm 99% certain that helmet wearing in the pro-sport world is not evidence based but crafty mix of safety and marketing.

[sorry for rambling]
 

numbnuts

Legendary Member
yawn .....:blush:
 
therams said:
You don't have to read, this is interesting information, for me at least.

Absolutely, clue in the thread title if you knew you weren't interested!

Maybe there should be a Helmet FAQ with various links to information so people can make there own mind up. It's going to keep coming up.
 
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