Buy as one vs build - on a budget

[Blue Hills]

Just don't grease the plastic side

Loved UN55s but would never go back after moving to HT2. the difference in weight alone is astounding.

Again, that was additional monies

at the risk of a tread divert, you can tell the difference in weight when riding the bike?
If I'd been more sussed at the time, Mr Hewitt would never have sneaked an HT2 onto my tourer from him - would have been UN55.
As for grease, it won't harm the plastic will it?
I grease all threads.
(and some of the politico ones on here could sure as hell do with some serious lube)

 

[Threevok]

I actually did notice the difference.

and no, you don't really want to grease the plastic side, because it will need extra torque when trying to install it and will probably crack (and yes I have done it) or you will round it off.

 

[Blue Hills]

I actually did notice the difference.

and no, you don't really want to grease the plastic side, because it will need extra torque when trying to install it and will probably crack (and yes I have done it) or you will round it off.

fair enough, but though I accept that held in the hand some BBs seem unfeasibly heavy, I still cannot help but think of the princess and pea

 

[Threevok]

fair enough, but though I accept that held in the hand some BBs seem unfeasibly heavy, I still cannot help but think of the princess and pea

It's not just the BB though, it's the weight comparison of the whole crankset.

When I purchased my first HT2 crankset I thought they had forgotten to put it in the box, it was that light - BB included

There was also a noticeable difference in pedal to power ratio too

 

[Blue Hills]

ta for the reply but cannot claim to have noticed any great difference when I'm on the Hewitt. Never was great at ratios/maths though.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

Yep. Dawes supplied my Vantage with a bottom bracket that failed within a year of easy use. I don't put alot of strain on components as I'm a wuss.
The headset on that bike was also knackered within a year and even from day one it was rough as sandpaper.
The rear hub was also a cheap affair that was starting to rattle itself to bits after about 2 years..

You bought a far-east built, badge engineered Dawes. They seem to be playing the same game as everyone else importing rebadged bikes; trade on your previous reputation for quality but build bikes on the cheap. Whilst the frames might technically still be designed here, they aren't the same thing as an old-school bike that was hand-built in the UK I wouldn't personally buy a new Dawes today any more than I would buy a new Raleigh. However, I do happily buy 20+ year old used examples of those makes with their quality lugged steel frames and reliable long-lasting mechanicals.

 

[Tin Pot]

I can build a Cinelli CX (£1200-1400) and have built an Argon18 £4,000-£5,000) for half the price in the web shops.

I wouldn’t bother for the cheaper end of the market though, under £500 would be a new buy for me. Not worth the time to build or the hassle of used.
Just imho of course.

 

[Vantage]

There's nothing wrong with far Eastern designed and/or built frames and components.
Take Shimano for example. Or Suntour. Almost every frame and fork on the planet is made there along with seat posts, saddles, stems, bars etc and generally, they're bloody good quality.
It's when it's done stupidly cheap by underpaid workers when issues occur.
It's the same with electronics and cars. Those made in the far east are far more reliable than the crap made in the UK.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

There's nothing wrong with far Eastern designed and/or built frames and components.

They come in different levels of quality like anything else, there's very good stuff and there's junk, and stuff in between. Not all British built bikes were the best quality either. What I have a problem with though, is lesser quality machines being badged as a well-respected long established brand, and priced as such, when the quality doesn't warrant it.
You admitted you had a BB and a Headset failure in a short period of time, plus a rear hub that wore at an accelerated rate - on a Dawes, a make of bike you associate with good quality. For comparison, I still own the Austrian-built Puch 3-speed roadster I got new in 1984/5 and rode everywhere before I had a car - so that bike has had a LOT of use. It would have normally sold for about £80 new (I got it 10% off in a sale), so in today's money it's a sub-£250 bike. Despite the modest price, the BB, headset, and rear hub are all still the originals and have never needed anything more than routine lubrication attention. There is definitely a problem with quality these days given the short service life of so many components.

 

[Vantage]

Which is what I said in my last post

 

[jamin100]

Thanks all for the replies...
Well we managed to pick up a used Merida cyclocross 3 yesterday for £250.

It’s in really good condition and for what he’ll be using it for (racing cyclocross) it’ll be perfect.

It’s 10 speed triagra with disk brakes so he could always upgrade the shifter to 105 if the cables dropping out the top annoy him..

But for what he’s paid it and it’s usage it’s probabky not worth it ..

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

Sensible outcome. You can't beat buying secondhand for value for money. What you didn't spend buying a new one (especially the VAT element, which is money down the drain) is still available to spend on something else.

 

[Blue Hills]

But the vat element affects the retail price/perceived value doesn't it?

I agree with you generally though, as usually, particularly if you are into a particular sort of bike. I bought a hewitt new, which for complicated reasons hasn't been ridden much - i don't live with it. Since getting it, and having it mostly sat there, I have twice seen what is its clone very lightly used indeed at half the price. in short, they are less used than mine.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

But the vat element affects the retail price/perceived value doesn't it?

It certainly affects the price, and in my book it reduces the perceived value. Take a reasonable quality bike that might have a wholesale price of £300, and the retailer adds £200 mark-up to cover his costs and make a bit of profit. To the retailer, it's a £500 bike, to the private punter who buys it, it becomes a £600 bike.
The instant the punter jumps on his new bike and a wheel touches the road, it's secondhand. The VAT is dead money, plus probably at least £100 of the nett retail price. £200+ depreciation in one ride!

 

[bpsmith]

I get the logic of losing out on depreciation and VAT, but who sells a bike after one ride usually?

Yes, mistakes are made on badly fitting bikes, but generally people keep them for a very long time.