Buy as one vs build - on a budget

[davidphilips]

Have to say i like buying the bits and building bikes, but really its cheaper just buying a used bike, for example at present i am building a look kg381, bought the frame from ebay £235, a used dura ace groupset £135, tyres tubes wheels apox £80, then theres the saddle chain cables bar tape pedals, the value when finished would not be near the cost of all the parts really just what used to be called a labour of love.

 

[Threevok]

The Virtue came in under budget at about £1,600 - far less than if I wanted to buy a comparable spec bike off the shelf (if such a thing exists).

However, you do have to be careful not to get carried away with parts, especially when it comes to colour and brand matching.

I could have easily have spent more, buying a Chris King headset and BB, just because they were gold - when an AEST headset and Shimano Saint BB fitted the bill just as well. I could have also paid more for Hope brakes to match the wheels, when Shimano LX trekking brakes were really all I required for what I use the bike for.

That doesn't mean you have to compromise though. Hanging around for good deals on high end parts also pays dividends, providing you are prepared to wait.

 

[Threevok]

But. Buying a complete bike at the right sale price is still cheaper than sourcing all of the components separately, even after factoring in additional upgrades!

Plus the parts removed usually have a decent resale value too.

Perhaps, but it depends on what you are buying / building.

Can't speak for road bikes, but buy a cheap MTB and the first thing you change is the crappy forks for a decent set. Unfortunately, the second hand market is awash with crappy low end OEM forks and any money you could make (after postage, fees etc) probably wouldn't cover cost of the new tyres you are going to need, once you discover the ones that came with the bike are woefully inadequate and bloody dangerous.

Then, six months down the line, your brakes don't work so good (not that they were that good to start with) so you buy an expensive bleed kid (worth more than the crappy brakes) but get so peed off with the job, that you eventually bin the brakes completely and buy a decent set. Again, you could offload the crappy ones, but everyone and his sister has a set for sale - and you'd struggle to claw back the cost of that bleed kit you wasted.

Then there's the crappy press-fit BB you have to keep replacing every few months - until the point, where you change the entire crankset to something better, because you've had enough of the fecking things.

On top of all this, there's the price of the LBS to do all this work for you - or the price of the tools to do it yourself.

Fair enough, you would have had to buy the tools anyway to build it yourself, but in some cases (like the BB listed above) you need two sets of tools.

 

[Black Sheep]

I've skipped through to add my experience,

I've kind of done both with mountain bikes, building and then upgrading parts when they've worn out, this gives some compromises when it comes to budget but you kind of get more for your money at the start if you shop around carefully as good brands skimp on the easier to upgrade parts, callipers, mechs etc rather than skimping on the frame.

The wife's road bike is a very good build for the £250 I spent, but that involved a fair bit of trade and barter with local bike shops who I'd been using for 7 years to get good second hand stuff

 

[Threevok]

Oh Yes - the Frame is everything. No use in tampering with a two tonne beast - no amount of carbon upgrades is going to make it ride any better

Saying that, My On One Inbred is a monster and probably the heaviest bike I have ever built

 

[Alan O]

Complete bikes are generally better value than piecemeal builds, and secondhand complete bikes are way better value than complete new bikes. When you build something up from parts, all the extra odds & ends you need; just a few quid here and there, all add up to a substantial amount by the end of the job. Complete machines have all these odds and ends fitted already. I think the trick to getting value is to buy roughly what you want to end up with in the first place, and don't be obsessive about "upgrades" if the spec is somewhere close just as it comes.

That's largely my experience regarding classic steel road bikes, though you do need to know what you're looking at with a complete 2nd hand bike.

My example is my Raleigh Royal, which I built up from just the frame using mostly eBay parts - approx £250 in total, excluding the saddle (I put a Brooks Cambium on it, so it's not fair to include that in the comparison).

I'm happy with what I have because every component is just what I want, but I've seen very similar Raleigh Royals in what look like excellent condition selling for less than half that.

In fact, I saw one a few months ago that looked functionally as good as mine and cosmetically better. There's obviously no guarantee, and it might well have needed some work and some replacement parts. But it went for just £75.

It was local and I almost bid on it myself with a view to stripping it and selling the parts, which I conservatively estimated should fetch at least £150 - but I couldn't bring myself to effectively destroy such a nice bike.

 

[bpsmith]

Perhaps, but it depends on what you are buying / building.

Can't speak for road bikes, but buy a cheap MTB and the first thing you change is the crappy forks for a decent set. Unfortunately, the second hand market is awash with crappy low end OEM forks and any money you could make (after postage, fees etc) probably wouldn't cover cost of the new tyres you are going to need, once you discover the ones that came with the bike are woefully inadequate and bloody dangerous.

Then, six months down the line, your brakes don't work so good (not that they were that good to start with) so you buy an expensive bleed kid (worth more than the crappy brakes) but get so peed off with the job, that you eventually bin the brakes completely and buy a decent set. Again, you could offload the crappy ones, but everyone and his sister has a set for sale - and you'd struggle to claw back the cost of that bleed kit you wasted.

Then there's the crappy press-fit BB you have to keep replacing every few months - until the point, where you change the entire crankset to something better, because you've had enough of the fecking things.

On top of all this, there's the price of the LBS to do all this work for you - or the price of the tools to do it yourself.

Fair enough, you would have had to buy the tools anyway to build it yourself, but in some cases (like the BB listed above) you need two sets of tools.

I can honestly only talk about Road Bikes, as that’s where my experience stops.

My latest Ridley Helium SL was had for £2k as was the last one, which happened to be in my size. RRP of £3.6k. It’s what Lotto Soudal use at World Tour level, with frame alone selling at around £2.5k. Mine came with Ultegra 6800, 4ZA finishing kit, Fulcrum 5 LG Wheels and Conti Ultrasport tyres.

I had a very distinct plan in mind for the styling and had bought Campag Eurus wheels, along with Vittoria Corsa G Gumwall tyres, brand new online for a very silly price in readiness. Also replaced the finishing kit with Fizik along with their Arione saddle.

Bike is very light indeed and handles amazingly. Yes, I could have stuck with the stock bike and it would have been great.

I now have a bike which cost me about £3k altogether, or £500 more than the price of the frame when bought alone!

I have sold the old seatpost, still have the saddle, stem and bars to flog, plus have a new spare set of wheels and tyres.

Full on custom bike and spares for £500 less than RRP on the bike.

 

[Blue Hills]

That's largely my experience regarding classic steel road bikes, though you do need to know what you're looking at with a complete 2nd hand bike.

My example is my Raleigh Royal, which I built up from just the frame using mostly eBay parts - approx £250 in total, excluding the saddle (I put a Brooks Cambium on it, so it's not fair to include that in the comparison).

I'm happy with what I have because every component is just what I want, but I've seen very similar Raleigh Royals in what look like excellent condition selling for less than half that.

In fact, I saw one a few months ago that looked functionally as good as mine and cosmetically better. There's obviously no guarantee, and it might well have needed some work and some replacement parts. But it went for just £75.

It was local and I almost bid on it myself with a view to stripping it and selling the parts, which I conservatively estimated should fetch at least £150 - but I couldn't bring myself to effectively destroy such a nice bike.

What a wonderful post. A true cyclist. Suppose being positive, rejoice that you can ride a bike and like it and get so much pleasure from it and they can still be had for so little. And there's sod all depreciation over the years (apart from your ability to climb hills). Ride on.

On the topic (must admit I haven't read the whole thread) the cheapest way to get a good quality bike with good components is to buy a new one (or very little used second hand one with components with miles left in them**) as close as possible to what you need and change the odd thing. For you get the benefit of the manufacturer's buying power on componentry. Of course this is getting more difficult these days if you are a certain sort of cyclist because of daft fripperies. I was lucky with my Ridgeback Expedition in that all it needs changing are:

rack for tough use - though it comes with a perfectly decent one for day to day use
wheels - natural to upgrade those but again the wheels are decent - still there after a year and some horrendous loads
Bottom bracket and chainset - It's Octalink and longer term I will change it to square taper.

But the thing is near perfect.

Quality manufacturers also quite often specify pretty good bits as they can source them cheaply.

My Ridgeback Expedition came with a perfectly good saddle and my Dale (now taken apart) introduced me to a great Selle Italia saddle, once available for £15, but now, of course, sadly discontinued.

Long term cyclists benefit of course from probably having lots of components sat around - new that they have already bought or which have been/can be taken from other bikes. And as all economists know, these are free

edit - see above
** it is still possible to find bikes that have sat inside almost unused since bought. I bought one a while ago that was 20 years old and was pristine.

 

[Blue Hills]

An off the shelf retail bike will more than likely have some cheapo nasty bits to cut costs vs the competition. Bottom brackets, brakes and headsets made of cheese spring to mind. Plus it'll be just another clone that every other Tom, Dick and Harriet has.
Building your own leaves your own personal touch and you end up with a one of a kind bike. Something special that no one else has.

are there really bottom brackets, brakes and headsets made of cheese from decent bike companies vantage?
If you check that most things are shimano you are surely fine and their stuff isn't pricey - all of their V brakes and levers for instance, as far as I can see, are all technically performance wise as good as each other, whatever the label.
The BB in my Dahon Speed Pro was definitely made of cheese (and the headset as well rather questionable) but then I consider Dahon a (thankfully) special case.

 

[Vantage]

Yep.
Dawes supplied my Vantage with a bottom bracket that failed within a year of easy use. I don't put alot of strain on components as I'm a wuss.
The headset on that bike was also knackered within a year and even from day one it was rough as sandpaper.
The rear hub was also a cheap affair that was starting to rattle itself to bits after about 2 years.
I've yet to see a good review of Tektro Oryx's anywhere and even I hated them.
On higher end bikes I suppose parts are better specced but anything generally around £350 -£600 is gonna have those bits made by ching shing co and destined to fail.
Spa Cycles themselves spec a cheap as chips bottom bracket on their Steel Tourer full build bike and there were reports of the fitted headset also being utter pants.

 

[Blue Hills]

Yep.
Dawes supplied my Vantage with a bottom bracket that failed within a year of easy use. I don't put alot of strain on components as I'm a wuss.
The headset on that bike was also knackered within a year and even from day one it was rough as sandpaper.
The rear hub was also a cheap affair that was starting to rattle itself to bits after about 2 years.
I've yet to see a good review of Tektro Oryx's anywhere and even I hated them.
On higher end bikes I suppose parts are better specced but anything generally around £350 -£600 is gonna have those bits made by ching shing co and destined to fail.
Spa Cycles themselves spec a cheap as chips bottom bracket on their Steel Tourer full build bike and there were reports of the fitted headset also being utter pants.

ta for the reply. Suprised at Spa - why on earth don't they just use a Shimano square taper? UN55 I think is the magic number.

 

[Vantage]

It doesn't make sense does it? The BB they use has plastic cups. Plastic. On a touring bike

 

[Blue Hills]

plastic cups BOTH sides?

As I understand it, plastic on one side of a cartridge BB is fine - only one side is "structural". A plastic cup can reduce chances of jamming/bonding.

 

[Threevok]

Just don't grease the plastic side

Loved UN55s but would never go back after moving to HT2. the difference in weight alone is astounding.

Again, that was additional monies

 

[Vantage]

plastic cups BOTH sides?

As I understand it, plastic on one side of a cartridge BB is fine - only one side is "structural". A plastic cup can reduce chances of jamming/bonding.

Looks like it. This one