BSO

[apollo179]

Caveat Emptor - The battle cry of dodgy salespeople everywhere. We do live in the 21st Century now don't we? We should be able to buy products that are what they claim to be. Asda and Tesco sell great value TV's, cameras, phones, DVD's, food, clothing et al so a reasonable person might expect the same from their bikes. Sadly this is not the case.

Consumers are well protected. If they were not so protected then maybe they would take their responsibility to check products before they buy them more seriously than they do at present. So long as they can return stuff carte blanche wheres the incentive to take responsibility for checking the goods and researching the product before buying.
Consumer rights are all well and good etc but they might also go partway to explain a culture of lazy buying.

 

[John the Monkey]

That sounds pretty much like the Apollo that I had. You had to plan and emergency stop and down hill braking was a distant dream.

Ha! This one isn't quite that bad. I hate the cantis on it though - the arms are pressed out of sheet metal, by the looks of things - flexy, and they need regular adjustment if the bike is ridden frequently (weekly or fortnightly). Plastic brake levers :/

I'd not trust the brand again, personally. Buying new, I'd go for a Carrera subway, or an EBC Courier, both of which look like bikes with sensible specs for the price - £200 ish, or £150 in the sales, if you're lucky.

As I've said frequently, buying 2nd hand, I'd keep an eye out for a looked after 80s or 90s hybrid. Buy for £20-£50, spend £30-£40 on new v-brake levers & Deore or Acera v brakes. Buy one with 7 speed drivetrain, (8 at the most) as it'll last forever if looked after (and you can get integrated levers to match that setup).

Upgrade the wheels as they need it (Exal LX17 on Deore is what I built for Mrs Monkey) or as finances allow. Look after the bike & it'll be a nice runaround for decades more.

 

[apollo179]

Ha! This one isn't quite that bad. I hate the cantis on it though - the arms are pressed out of sheet metal, by the looks of things - flexy, and they need regular adjustment if the bike is ridden frequently (weekly or fortnightly). Plastic brake levers :/

I'd not trust the brand again, personally. Buying new, I'd go for a Carrera subway, or an EBC Courier, both of which look like bikes with sensible specs for the price - £200 ish, or £150 in the sales, if you're lucky.

As I've said frequently, buying 2nd hand, I'd keep an eye out for a looked after 80s or 90s hybrid. Buy for £20-£50, spend £30-£40 on new v-brake levers & Deore or Acera v brakes. Buy one with 7 speed drivetrain, (8 at the most) as it'll last forever if looked after (and you can get integrated levers to match that setup).

Upgrade the wheels as they need it (Exal LX17 on Deore is what I built for Mrs Monkey) or as finances allow. Look after the bike & it'll be a nice runaround for decades more.

The brakes are easily upgradeable - ive changed mine to "line pull" i think theyre called.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Consumers are well protected. If they were not so protected then maybe they would take their responsibility to check products before they buy them more seriously than they do at present. So long as they can return stuff carte blanche wheres the incentive to take responsibility for checking the goods and researching the product before buying.
Consumer rights are all well and good etc but they might also go partway to explain a culture of lazy buying.

How many bikes are returned under these laws? From what I see not that many. People accept that what they have bought is how the machine should be as they quite probably have no baseline for the product. That is unfair on the consumer. As you become more interested in something of course more research goes into the next purchase but I maintain that a little sticker saying not suitable for off road riding on what pretends to be a MTB is hiding behind the law.

 

[John the Monkey]

The brakes are easily upgradeable - ive changed mine to "line pull" i think theyre called.

Linear pull, indeed - they're what I refer to as v-brakes further up.

In the case of Mrs. Monkey's bike, the raft of stuff that would need changing to make it almost as nice as a bike from the early 1990s simply didn't make an upgrade sensible.

Her Pioneer has a better frame, had better wheels than the Apollo even before I changed them[1], had a seven speed drivetrain that was in good nick & matched the 7 speed STi V brake levers I had in mind for it. It's even a jaunty purple colour. If we exclude the wheels (which weren't really a necessary upgrade) the whole thing cost less than £100, and less time in swearing at crappy components in the shed. Hell, people will even give you these bikes (un upgraded, of course, but normally ok) for free, sometimes.

It's a crazy world.

I'd not touch a Tesco/Asda bike with a bargepole. I'd be circumspect about an Apollo, based on past experiences. I couldn't recommend either, in good conscience, if someone asked my opinion on them.


[1] Although I still need to build a front, at some point. No urgency, as the one on it is fine.

 

[blockend]

The question is how much of a bike can anyone expect for sixty quid? I went to the local supermarket last night and the contents of a hand basket came to fifty.
The first road going bike I owned was a knock off of the Raleigh Twenty shopper, I don't even remember the make. The chrome on the rims was like foil (the shop replaced the wheels under warranty) and the standard of kit was pretty grim. It didn't stop me fitting chopper handlebars and riding all over the place with my mates until I got a Carlton racer.

I don't believe anyone buys a supermarket bike expecting to tour Europe on it.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

The question is how much of a bike can anyone expect for sixty quid? I went to the local supermarket last night and the contents of a hand basket came to fifty.
The first road going bike I owned was a knock off of the Raleigh Twenty shopper, I don't even remember the make. The chrome on the rims was like foil (the shop replaced the wheels under warranty) and the standard of kit was pretty grim. It didn't stop me fitting chopper handlebars and riding all over the place with my mates until I got a Carlton racer.

I don't believe anyone buys a supermarket bike expecting to tour Europe on it.

Neither do I but I believe they buy them expecting them to work!

 

[apollo179]

Neither do I but I believe they buy them expecting them to work!

Presumably they do work otherwise tesco / asda woudnt sell them.

 

[apollo179]

Linear pull, indeed - they're what I refer to as v-brakes further up.

In the case of Mrs. Monkey's bike, the raft of stuff that would need changing to make it almost as nice as a bike from the early 1990s simply didn't make an upgrade sensible.

Her Pioneer has a better frame, had better wheels than the Apollo even before I changed them[1], had a seven speed drivetrain that was in good nick & matched the 7 speed STi V brake levers I had in mind for it. It's even a jaunty purple colour. If we exclude the wheels (which weren't really a necessary upgrade) the whole thing cost less than £100, and less time in swearing at crappy components in the shed. Hell, people will even give you these bikes (un upgraded, of course, but normally ok) for free, sometimes.

It's a crazy world.

I'd not touch a Tesco/Asda bike with a bargepole. I'd be circumspect about an Apollo, based on past experiences. I couldn't recommend either, in good conscience, if someone asked my opinion on them.


[1] Although I still need to build a front, at some point. No urgency, as the one on it is fine.

Why would you feel the need to upgrade the brake levers - arnt they all the same ?

 

[John the Monkey]

Why would you feel the need to upgrade the brake levers - arnt they all the same ?

V brakes require a lever with a different amount of cable pull to that of cantilever brakes, unless you buy short armed "Mini-V" type brakes.

A few levers can operate both (they have an adjustable part inside that must be set correctly though).

I like v-brakes, they're easier to set up than cantis - and easy setup is what I look for on a bike I won't ride, but will need to maintain.

 

[apollo179]

V brakes require a lever with a different amount of cable pull to that of cantilever brakes, unless you buy short armed "Mini-V" type brakes.

A few levers can operate both (they have an adjustable part inside that must be set correctly though).

I like v-brakes, they're easier to set up than cantis - and easy setup is what I look for on a bike I won't ride, but will need to maintain.

Thanks for the info. I will investigate this. The donor bike is an ammaco - with hind sight i might have been better off building the ammaco up rather than the apollo but i assumed apollo was the better ones.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

The question is how much of a bike can anyone expect for sixty quid? I went to the local supermarket last night and the contents of a hand basket came to fifty.
The first road going bike I owned was a knock off of the Raleigh Twenty shopper, I don't even remember the make. The chrome on the rims was like foil (the shop replaced the wheels under warranty) and the standard of kit was pretty grim. It didn't stop me fitting chopper handlebars and riding all over the place with my mates until I got a Carlton racer.

I don't believe anyone buys a supermarket bike expecting to tour Europe on it.

I can beleive someone buys a supermarket bike expecting to tour the car park on it.

Most of them would be unrideable after one or two circuits and a quick bump or two up a kerb.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Presumably they do work otherwise tesco / asda woudnt sell them.

As on old Army buddy of mine used to say. "Presumption is the Mother of all **** ups"
Edit - I mean he was ex army not that we were in Army together.

 

[John the Monkey]

Thanks for the info. I will investigate this.

No problem - Sheldon Brown has a page that explains the difference quite well;

• Conventional brake levers used with direct-pull cantilevers will usually not pull enough cable to stop in wet conditions without bottoming out against the handlebars. In dry conditions, they either won't work, or will grab too suddenly.
• Direct-pull brake levers used with any other type of brakes will feel nice and solid when you squeeze them, but due to their lower mechanical advantage you'll need to squeeze twice as hard to stop as you should, so unless you are a lightweight rider with gorilla-like paws, this combination isn't safe either.

(Direct Pull = V Brake = Linear Pull Brakes)
http://www.sheldonbr...nti-direct.html

V-Brakes are great - even the Deore & Acera ones near the bottom of Shimano's range set up quickly & easily, and stop great - but you *need* v-brake levers.

The donor bike is an ammaco - with hind sight i might have been better off building the ammaco up rather than the apollo but i assumed apollo was the better ones.

You'll learn a lot from building the bike up in any case - ride it a bit, see what you think. If it's not a suspension frame, the worst it will be is a bit heavy (hopefully they've junked those derailleur hangers secured by the rear wheel since Mrs Monkey's was made).

You don't need to spend a fortune on them, but good quality levers & brakes & decent gears &c will make the experience a lot more pleasant, and save you many hours in the shed.

From my own experience, Deore & Acera in the shimano range work great, and won't break the bank.

Mrs Monkey's Pioneer had a seven speed cassette at the back (Shimano 200cx, I think) and triple chainrings. I was able to get integrated V-brake & 7speed shifter (Acera) for about £20, iirc. Much nicer than the ones that were on it too.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Do we accept the Pioneer as the world's first hybrid?