Brompton clones

[rogerzilla]

Speaking about bushings:
https://brompton.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360010560298-Rear-Hinge-Servicing

How often will this need doing?

The time in which these bushings wear out varies enormously dependent on the amount of use, style of riding, rider weight/power output, number of folds, general cleanliness of the bike, etc.


For comparison: our resident test technician rides approximately 30 miles a day, 3 days a week on his Brompton and requires a rear hinge replacement service around every 4 months.

This comes from official Brompton website.
Brompton Rear hinge bush and spindle kit, excluding reamer costs about £22.5? So even if it is done by the bike owner with just part cost, we come to £67.5 per year? The job itself by experienced technician cost £40? Are we talking about £190 per year then?
On other hand I found some owners who say that they did the replacement only after years of owning the bike.

It'll be the higher (technician) cost, as Brompton won't sell you the tool if you live in the UK. They sell it in countries without an extensive dealer network, but the only shop I could find it for sale was in Belgium, and it's one that won't ship to Brexit Island.

 

[yoho oy]

Some cheaper brompton clones started popping up on Aliexpress and they are shipped from France. 3 speed Litepro models at £287 with free shipping. Sounded too good to be true. It seems it was- the stores had no reviews on any items they were selling (from bike parts to watches) and now they are gone from aliexpress. Shipping is not a problem, it seems it can go as low as £38 from China from more legit(?) stores.

 

[yoho oy]

Here is titanium brompton clone at £4188 from China. Too expensive for 9.8kg

 

[rogerzilla]

I bought a Litepro crankset for £15 new on the Bay of Thieves. It is unusable Chinese dross, out of true and out of round. If the bikes are like that, they are landfill-in-waiting.

 

[yoho oy]

I bought a Litepro crankset for £15 new on the Bay of Thieves. It is unusable Chinese dross, out of true and out of round. If the bikes are like that, they are landfill-in-waiting.

I will definitely buy Litepro ez wheel extension for my brompton once it is delivered and will let you know about quality.

 

[yoho oy]

One chap in Hungary went Brompton clone route, specifically Litepro. Here is his adventures.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIEZTGhQ-XA
Post is recent, so anyone can ask him more questions about the bike. I think the bike itself is OK, but the problem is unsuitable shipping and actually quite steep price. Interestingly enough he purchased the bike directly from Litepro.

 

[berlinonaut]

I think the bike itself is OK, but the problem is unsuitable shipping and actually quite steep price. Interestingly enough he purchased the bike directly from Litepro.

Time will tell if the bike itself really is ok. Regarding the price he seems to have a lot of luck. He paid:
800$ for the bike
15$ for the shipment
On top of that he should have paid:
27% Hungarian VAT
10% import customs
48,5% anti-dumping tarif for bike imports to the EU from China (1)

With all import duties applied legally correct this would then sum up to something in the area of 1500$. Not really a bargain in comparison to a real genuine Brompton if you ask me. The poster of the video missed to take the anti-dumping tarifs into account and furthermore missed to take customs into account - he just calcultated with the Hungarian VAT. Which then he was lucky not to be charged with. Plus the seller gave him a 300$ rebate afterwards for the damages the bike suffered from during transport. So effectively he paid just 500$ - 1/3 of what he legally was ought to pay. Plus he was lucky that the customs in hungary did obviously not only not honor the import laws but also not recognize the fact that he imported a counterfeit product - otherwise he had had the risk of the bike being confiscated at customs with a total loss of his money as a consequence (plus possibly a fine for trying an illegal import).

However: For judging on the bike one should have in mind the price gap he paid to a legal price and if one thinks about importing one one should consider the cost and the potential risk involved. With all that in mind importing a fake Brompton from China seems not at all attractive to me, not even if the bike would be equal to a Brompton in terms of quality.

So the price he paid is not at all steep - 500$, really? Being too greedy often leeds to simply wasting your money completely...

So in the end you have the choice to

a) go to a shop, buy a Brompton for ~1500€, known qualitiy, warranty, well know spare parts situation, fully legal, high resale value
b) taking a bet: pay a company in China 800$ plus shipping for a fake Brompton, get hopefully something but clearly of unknown quality and in unknown state, possibly no warranty an no spare parts, a low to non existent resale value and possibly no bike at all. You end up paying something between 500$ and 1500$ for a triple or quadruple bet and safely with a product (if at all) that is of considerably lower quality than an original Brompton in many aspects.

One must be either a serious gambler or a really stupid person to take that bet and the risks tied to it in my opinion. If you are short on money it is even more stupid to take the risk of a total loss or a bike that's not fit for purpose - you should better avoid risks in such a situation and would be far better off to buy a used original Brompton for possibly around 1000€ (or even a A-line), so in the area of what you are willing/able to invest anyway but w/o the risk.

----------
(1) anti dumping tarifs against bikes (apart from ebikes) from China have been active as long as since 1993. They have been finally decided in their latest revision at the beginning of 2019 with the following amounts:
Zhejiang Baoguilai Vehicle Co. Ltd.: 19,2 %
Oyama Bicycles (Taicang) Co. Ltd.: 0 %
Ideal (Dongguan) Bike Co. Ltd.: 0 %
Giant China Co. Ltd.: 0 %
all others : 48,5 %

Here's the current list of goods with anti-dumping tax of Dec. 2021 (from Austria, but should apply to all EU countries including Hungary): https://www.bmdw.gv.at/dam/jcr:f0b5545e-19ac-446a-be2b-c88beccaaf27/Antidumping Warenliste.pdf
Here's the according EU legal document: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:32019R0073&qid=1548320414059&from=DE

 

[CEBEP]

Litepro sent him damaged parts at once. He would probably need to wait for Brompton to send the same for 6 months or so

Good service Litepro.

 

[berlinonaut]

Litepro sent him damaged parts at once. He would probably need to wait for Brompton to send the same for 6 months or so

Well, according to the video he is still waiting for the parts to arrive. Looking at the video and the damages what he reiceived was a piece of trash. One would clearly not accept a bike in this state from any local shop and if posted, would immediately send it back. Only due to the fact that the seller is far away in China and everything is a total hassle there's at all the need and opportunity at all to replace those parts.

Good service Litepro.

It is no doubt a fair behavior from Litepro - on the other hand: We do not know how was initially paid for the bike. If it was i.e. paid via Paypal or Credit Card the alternative would have been that they end up with nothing. Justified, because of one of the most shitty packaging jobs I ever saw. From a bike manufacturer. Plus what you can see i.e. regarding the pedals or the length of the rear mudguard you can already get the idea where the price comes from and the downsides of the bike are.

Please keep in mind that legally that bike would have costed him about 1500$. With that in mind a 300$ rebate for a trashed counterfeit fake bike copy does not sound overly excessive but rather still not acceptable in comparison to the final price. He was lucky to escape all the taxes, so for him it is a 37,5% rebate. Normally it would have been just 20%. Would for me not have been attractive (as would the bike not have been at the fully legal price). And obviously that kind of managing sales, shipments and defects does not sound like a legal, healthy and scalable business model either...

 

[shingwell]

It seems foolish to me to boast about not paying the legally required import taxes and duties on a public youtube video. A bit like those people who hold a phone in one hand filming themselves driving at 100mph+ and posting a public video, and then getting a visit from the police. 🤭

 

[CEBEP]

Should've we placed a Brompton in a carton box with no other packaging material and ship it across the globe, it would probably sustain same damage or worse. It's a seller's fault not to pack it properly and says nothing about bike quality. Based on carton box condition in the video clip I can see that package was heavily abused during delivery.

We also don't know what components were used on the bike as buyer seemed to be happy with it overall, but didn't dive into details in this video. And it's not same taxation policy all around the world. Here it Turkey we don't have 48% antidumping taxes for deliveries from China and Brompton bikes here are more expensive than in Germany, if you can find one. This will make price difference far more significant.

I guess everyone will decide for themselves if price difference will be worth it to buy one bike or the other. It's good to have a choice.

 

[berlinonaut]

Should've we place a Brompton in a carton box with no other packaging material and ship it across the globe it would've probably sustain same damage if not worst. It's a seller's fault not to pack it properly and says nothing about bike quality. Based on carton box condition on the video the package was heavily abused during delivery.

Which is quite normal and which is why Brompton has decades ago developed a special box for shipping Bromptons - as they do it constantly it is worth it. This also counts to the professionalism. You should not forget that the bike was sold and shipped by Litepro themselves who claim to be the maker of the bike. And they just threw it into a generic packaging w/o any protection.

We also don't know what components were used on the bike as buyer seemed to be happy with it overall but didn't dive into details in this video.

You can see some of the details and components in the video and they are far from being impressive. Plus you should not forget that the buyer does not know a "real" Brompton. So for one he cannot compare and secondly it is human nature to like things that you just bought, especially when you get unexpected discount... To be honest: He seemed to be rather surprised that the thing actually rode.

I guess everyone will decide for themselves if price difference will be acceptable for them for such purchase. The good thing is to have a choice.

That's absolutely true. Plus there will always people be willing to buy fake products because the do not honor the intellectual work that was needed to create the original. And there will always be people wo buy things just because they are cheap, they do neither need nor understand the quality and the diferences and then claim their fake product would be of the same quality as the original, no matter if that's true or not.

I guess it all comes down to attitude, expectations and needs. Would you buy a gadget, that's nice to have but nothing more in a counterfeit version from China? Would you do it with a tool that you rely on on daily basis for the next ten years? Would you do it with - in Corona times - let's say a ventilation machine for a hospital? When the original from the UK costs double the price? Would you do it with a Picasso painting? And would you then in each of these cases produce a youtube video, proudly presenting the counterfeit?

 

[CEBEP]

Whatever product line I would look into, in China there are always 3 main levels of producers.

1. as cheap as possible. High quantity.
2. avarage quality - avarage price.
3. good quality, right mindset, investing in R&D and higher price.

I believe bikes are something similar too where you can find all 3. Guys from Level 3. may be able to offer much higher quality products in time.

 

[berlinonaut]

David Hon, the founder of Dahon, wrote a book about folding bikes and their market back in 2015. It is freely available for download. While I do not agree with everything he writes I generally agree with his classification of folding bike brands which he groups into five segments:

Different brands have different “supply chain strategies” behind the scenes that can fundamentally affect their products and services. A supply chain may be made up of three links, namely: design, production, and marketing. “Design” includes invention, engineering and product aesthetic design. It has to be a non-stop effort to improve, like anything. “Production” includes tooling, mass production and quality assurance. “Marketing” includes planning and execution of marketing/sales policies. Five different types of supply chains might be recognized (and nice to know):

1. International companies who manage all three links; design, manufacturing and marketing. This type has the most vertical integration and can theoretically supply the best products and services for the costs; but economy-of-scale and geo-economy can be serious challenges. (This type include: Di Blasi, Dahon, Brompton, Oyama, Giant, bike Friday, Ubike, Jango.)

2. Marketers with Designs. Marketers who do their own designs, place orders with original equipment manufacturers (OEM). Theoretically better than 1 above in division of labor. (Montague, Birdy, Raleigh, Tern, Allen Sport) Communication and shortage of over-lapping expertise can bring nagging problems.

3. All links independent. All three chain links are handled by different companies. This type can theoretically be a nice synergy between East and West and can produce good innovative products. But problems mentioned for 2 above can be exacerbated. (Birdy, Pacific, Ubike) 8

4. Importers from OEM. Western importers who buy from Asian OEM manufacturers with little designing from either party. Copying is the key. They survive by aggressive pricing and promotion.

5. OEM manufacturers, mostly from China, who offer Folding Bicycle with their own logos, and touting “factory direct” on the Internet and other mass outlets. While typically new to quality assurance and marketing protocols, they are most price competitive. (Find them in Alibaba and Aliexpress). Again, copying is the name of the game; legal entanglement is frequent.

I guess the fact that in David Hon's supply chain definition the words "after sales support/ sustomer suport" and "spare parts" do not show up also tells us something about his own brand (and unfortunately this holds true and legends say that this is one of the things that then led to the splitup in his family and the founding or Tern).

 

[u_i]

David Hon, the founder of Dahon, wrote a book about folding bikes and their market back in 2015.
1. International companies who manage all three links; design, manufacturing and marketing. This type has the most vertical integration and can theoretically supply the best products and services for the costs; but economy-of-scale and geo-economy can be serious challenges. (This type include: Di Blasi, Dahon, Brompton, Oyama, Giant, bike Friday, Ubike, Jango.)

I guess the fact that in David Hon's supply chain definition the words "after sales support/ sustomer suport" and "spare parts" do not show up also tells us something about his own brand (and unfortunately this holds true and legends say that this is one of the things that then led to the splitup in his family and the founding or Tern).

Hmm, I bought a Dahon in China in the past. The experience was as follows: The rack had incorrectly drilled holes and these were covered with the nuts, so you could not see them. The folding pedals fell apart in a matter of weeks. The steel that the chainring was made of was so soft that it got bent in normal use. The spokes started dropping off after several months as if they were leaves on trees in autumn. The shifter fell apart within a year. When you went to the shops that were listed as Dahon dealers on Dahon website, about 5 out 6 were not there anymore. When you went to Giant stores in China, the stuff was pretty much like anywhere else in the world, a bit uninspiring but of normal quality.