Brompton clones

[rogerzilla]

I like the FAQ "Is there any problem to buy it to Europe (or Spain)?

Maybe they think Franco is still running it as a dictatorship.

 

[u_i]

And the Mobot Royale. Looks like you'd have to pay shipping costs plus duties and taxes, but it still looks like a big saving.

I am dumbfounded by the reasoning here. So if I do not buy any bike at all, I save all the money?? If I go out and by some department store bike for $150, I save most money? Is it about buying a bike that looks like Brompton, but paying less than for a Brompton? Is this supposed to be a good deal??

As to buying on AliExpress in another post, depending on your purchasing pattern, it can be the most expensive portal around to buy on. The issue is of practically nonexistent protection for the buyer. By now I made about 100 purchases on AliExpress, so I am knowledgeable about the subject. There is a far higher percentage of incompetent and unscrupulous sellers than elsewhere and far greater percentage of marginal products. If you are unhappy with your purchase, you in practice lost all your money or most of it. The portal is good for buying low-value items, so you do not care if you lose your money, or for products of established quality from vendors who represent the manufacturers. With everything else, you need to be in a better financial situation than most, so you do not care, else it can be financially suicidal.

 

[Yellow Fang]

I am dumbfounded by the reasoning here. So if I do not buy any bike at all, I save all the money?? If I go out and by some department store bike for $150, I save most money? Is it about buying a bike that looks like Brompton, but paying less than for a Brompton? Is this supposed to be a good deal??

As to buying on AliExpress in another post, depending on your purchasing pattern, it can be the most expensive portal around to buy on. The issue is of practically nonexistent protection for the buyer. By now I made about 100 purchases on AliExpress, so I am knowledgeable about the subject. There is a far higher percentage of incompetent and unscrupulous sellers than elsewhere and far greater percentage of marginal products. If you are unhappy with your purchase, you in practice lost all your money or most of it. The portal is good for buying low-value items, so you do not care if you lose your money, or for products of established quality from vendors who represent the manufacturers. With everything else, you need to be in a better financial situation than most, so you do not care, else it can be financially suicidal.

I don't think I'd buy anything on AliExpress myself.

 

[bonzobanana]

I believe the Brompton is made from different types of steel to give different material properties at different points of the frame and the brazing enables this quite well. This gives the frame its unique characteristics. I've seen a comparison of a clone model compared to Brompton and the clone felt weaker with more flexing. I could be wrong but I seem to remember the Brompton is a mixture of both high tensile steel and chromoly steel.

As for aliexpress its generally been a hit for me, maybe 3% of orders have issues (but I do check reviews before ordering). One product I received half what I ordered but the price was fantastic even for half the quantity and aliexpress did nothing for me except say I could return it at my cost. They did not care about me not receiving the order as described. Other times Aliexpress customer service has been good. I've just ordered 2 items today because of the free £2 cashback at topcashback. One is a Sensa 10 speed rear derailleur and the other is a Micronew 10 speed rear derailleur.

The Micronew works out at about £5.50 delivered (allowing for the £2 cashback and other cashback) and is coming from France.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002926585634.html

The Sensah works out at about £9 delivered (allowing for the £2 cashback plus other cashback).

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002783295107.html

I've had Micronew (same company as Microshift and Sunrace) trigger shifters before and they were fine. I've also had Microshift twist shifters and a entry level Microshift rear derailleur and they were fairly poor quality. We shall see how it goes.

Yes Shimano is better (mid-range upwards) but I like cheap builds and seeing how they perform.

 

[simongt]

It's interesting how bike prices are judged by any particular type of bike. Brommys are not a cheap folder option, but are very well made and completely 'individual'; can't mistake a Brommy for anything else. So what's the difference as such then with a carbon Bianchi road bike costing, in 2018, £11,000 when a 'just as good' a bike can be had for well under half that - ?
Just saying - !

 

[sheddy]

As probably said, AR had frame failures on the first run. Fortunately they were all purchased by friends, so they just patiently returned them and waited.

 

[rogerzilla]

AR?

 

[TheDoctor]

Andrew Ritchie, the designer of the Brommie?
We're not worthy!

 

[FrankCrank]

Andrew Ritchie, the designer of the Brommie?
We're not worthy!

And they said he wouldn't amount to anything when he left Wham.

 

[TheDoctor]

And they said he wouldn't amount to anything when he left Wham.

That's careless whispers, nothing more.

 

[Yellow Fang]

I am not convinced the Brompton's metal frame is all that special. It's heavy. It's made of stovepipe steel. I'm pretty sure it's not made of triple-butted, Reynolds 953 steel tubing, or whatever Reynolds' best tubing is. I don't really see a lot special in quality terms about the components. They are a funny size and some of the components were designed for Brompton. It is interesting that the Brompton cloners have sourced suitable components. I wonder if they sourced them from the same suppliers.

 

[berlinonaut]

I am not convinced the Brompton's metal frame is all that special. It's heavy. It's made of stovepipe steel. I'm pretty sure it's not made of triple-butted, Reynolds 953 steel tubing, or whatever Reynolds' best tubing is. I don't really see a lot special in quality terms about the components. They are a funny size and some of the components were designed for Brompton. It is interesting that the Brompton cloners have sourced suitable components. I wonder if they sourced them from the same suppliers.

The point is: The Brompton is not about using high level Reynolds tubing. It is not about the fanciness of the components. It is the usage that you get from the whole package that is the result of the parts that counts. You will not understand it if don't experience it. Yes, the Brompton is expensive but the value you get from it makes it pay from itself in literally no time and it is worth every penny. At least that's true for me - your mileage may vary. If you niggle about a certain part you miss the picture. And often enough you'll even miss the point when judging about certain parts. With a folders many rules for "normal" bikes are worth nothing. I.e. the Brompton is made of ordinary steel, no fancy Reynolds tubing. Not only is it sufficient for the purpose, possibly it is even the better choice as the thicker tubing is more robust and due to folding, geometry and usage physics hit a folder in a way more complex way than a diamond frame.
It seems that your best choice is to make your own experiences. If you think the cheaper clones are a better deal than an original Brompton you should buy one. Many have gone down that road before you. Judging from the reports on the internet some liked it while most sooner or later recognized that things that look similar on first look are not necessarily of similar quality, let alone regarding service, parts and endurance. Many of them realized that buying cheap often means buying twice. Go and make your own experiences - unbeatable. It is as impossible as it is unnecessary to try to convice you. The more as you already seem to have an opinion and whatever others say does not influence it.

 

[Yellow Fang]

It is as impossible as it is unnecessary to try to convice you. The more as you already seem to have an opinion and whatever others say does not influence it.

No, I want Brompton to thrive. But we've all seen what happened to the British motorcycle, car, shipbuilding, aviation and other Industries. There is no point in relying on patriotism when other countries make similar or better stuff much cheaper. I would like to know for a fact those Brompton clones are inferior products. I suspect they're not. Brompton seem like they have been concentrating on things like electric variants, specify-your-own Brompton technology, and bicycle hire schemes. In the meantime, far east manufacturers have worked out how to make reasonable copies of the basic product for lot less money.

 

[berlinonaut]

There is no point in relying on patriotism when other countries make similar or better stuff much cheaper.

Being a German living in Germany I am probably unsuspected of British patriotism...

I would like to know for a fact those Brompton clones are inferior products. I suspect they're not.

Here we go again: You cannot judge w/o experience. Go, make your experiences and judge after having done that.

 

[bonzobanana]

I am not convinced the Brompton's metal frame is all that special. It's heavy. It's made of stovepipe steel. I'm pretty sure it's not made of triple-butted, Reynolds 953 steel tubing, or whatever Reynolds' best tubing is. I don't really see a lot special in quality terms about the components. They are a funny size and some of the components were designed for Brompton. It is interesting that the Brompton cloners have sourced suitable components. I wonder if they sourced them from the same suppliers.

It isn't made of stovepipe steel, its high quality steel sourced from Spain I believe and a mixture of grades that you wouldn't get on basic steel bikes. When Dahon did their aluminium clone of the Brompton it actually turned out heavier and has a harsh ride. I think that's the whole point of the brazing that they can connect different steels with different material properties. In contrast the Brompton clones are not made the same way they are made more cheaply probably with uniform steel across the whole frame. I'll admit I don't know that for sure but that is the typical low cost way of manufacturing. I do know you can weld chromoly steel and high tensile steels together. I have an old Trek mountain bike which is chromoly for the main triangle but high tensile steel for the stays but that would be more uniform thickness because of the welds. I think brazing allows more versatility in that regard.

I'm not one to belittle high tensile steel anyway I think its a great material for frames. However the term high tensile steel is a general one and can mean many steels of many different types.