Black pro cyclists.

[Flying_Monkey]

Norm - what 'races' do you think there are, and how are the differences relevant in this context? Chap is making much the same point that I made back in August before this thread was resurrected that what people think are 'races' have no meaning in terms of what we were (painfully) trying to discuss here - a point which was entirely misunderstood the first time around. And please tell me you don't think that races are equivalent to species...

And BTW, what is this thread doing on Cafe anyway - surely it should be in Racing (or P&L)?

 

[Norm]

You are also reading more into my post than was written, although I'm starting to pick that up as a bit of a habit on here.

There are differences between different populations, different races, if you like, and a blanket "people are all the same" assertion means that we might be blinding ourselves to valuable discoveries.

Could we have discovered the background of sickle cell, for instance, and the link between sickle cell and malaria if we had just said that everyone was the same? By taking the "race" of Africans (of all colours) away from the malaria-rich geography, we are discovering genetic differences which are nothing to do with skin colour.

Norm - what 'races' do you think there are, and how are the differences relevant in this context?

There are too many for my little head to count, that's for sure. Can we define race on the basis of nature or nurture? Some consider "African American" to be a race, which would suggest that they are Africans who, by nothing more than geography, have been raised in an American culture.

Can we use culture to make racial distinctions? Probably not, not in the context of physiological differences anyway but, in terms of seeing black riders on the Tour, then culture may be relevant.

Sorry, having read back over this thread in its entirety, I've just noticed that I am covering ground already ridden.

 

[Flying_Monkey]

Sorry, having read back over this thread in its entirety, I've just noticed that I am covering ground already ridden.

Exactly... and I was just asking you some questions, which I am very pleased to note that you answered.

The argument previously was with people who seemed to think that 'black' (or other social categories) constituted a meaningful category in terms of the physiological requirements of professional cycling. The problem is when a lot of people start going on about denying the 'reality of race' (or similar), they are often merely trying to find some support for personal prejudices or ignorance, and their assertions are eminently and easily deniable.

 

[Norm]

The other point of note is that, even if we are to allow that there are physiological differences between populations (a less emotive word than races), that does not imply that those differences apply to every individual within that population.

If, to use a stereotype, we say that French make good chefs, that does not mean that the French chap with whom I dined on Sunday didn't make a right balls up of cooking. Nor does it mean that I am incapable in the kitchen just because I am English. Although I am completely incapable in the kitchen, that's nothing to do with me being English.

 

[Flying_Monkey]

Also true.

 

[walker]

I remember bringing this up ages ago on the C+ Website and also here.

as far as I remember the out come was money and prospects.

If you, Ade Oluykenye, have a TV, You will see on it highly paid footballers, or, Great african runners, cricketers if you live in the Windies so, if sport is your thing, this is the area you go into, you do not see Tennis, if at all, you will rarely see golf, and I doubt you will see hockey or highlights from the crucible.

Money may not be a factor, not all nations in Africa live in Shanty towns, but as alot are corrupt, if you was to cycle down the road on a Pinerello, you'll likely make 100ft before your pushed off it and it taken away to be sold.
Roads are crap, so the opportunity to get anywhere for some training are limited.