Black pro cyclists.

[PaulB]

Watching the Tour of Ireland earlier, I realised I was a bit shocked to see a black rider on one of the teams as there simply aren't any in the major tours. Why is this? Compared to almost every major nation's athletes, black riders are not simply under represented, they are barely represented at all. Can anyone shed any light on this?

 

[ufkacbln]

In the late 1900s there was a black US cyclist called Major Taylor who overcame racism and somewhat dubious tactics to become World Champion in 1899.

There are a whole pantheon of Major Taylor Bicycling Clubs in his memory who encourage cycling in the African American community. They also award sports scholarships and funding for black atheletes, so there is some encouragement, it would seem though that few seep through to the professional cycling ranks.

 

[Mr Pig]

I remember years ago hearing that black people had different bone structure or something which made them better at some sports, like running, and less good at things like swimming. Might've been a load of rubbish, I don't know, but there may be something along those lines that results in black people not being as well suited to cycling.

But then they can play music and dance like no white man can so I guess they win! ;0)

 

[Will1985]

The only one I can think of is Rahsaan Bahati for Rock Racing.

Perhaps it is infrastructure? I see no reason why the East African long distance runner types couldn't ride - they could be demons on the climbs with an amazing power-to-weight ratio!

IIRC someone took 2 Kenyans to Alpe D'Huez last year to see if they could ascend quicker than Armstrong's record. Haven't heard anything since so presumably they didn't make it, but I think they were still thrashing local pros in practice.

 

[PaulB]

I remember years ago hearing that black people had different bone structure or something which made them better at some sports, like running, and less good at things like swimming. Might've been a load of rubbish, I don't know, but there may be something along those lines that results in black people not being as well suited to cycling.

But then they can play music and dance like no white man can so I guess they win! ;0)

A lot of people reckon they've heard or read such stuff but no one can ever show where they read or heard it. It is indeed a load of rubbish. I don't know of any credible scientific research that proves race confers any benefit in any given sport (and I won't accept arguments based on a race just happening to be high altitude natives either). However, I am genuinely interested enough to hear arguments to the contrary (but not from Stonecastle, obviously).

 

[Chrisz]

I remember years ago hearing that black people had different bone structure or something which made them better at some sports, like running, and less good at things like swimming. Might've been a load of rubbish, I don't know, but there may be something along those lines that results in black people not being as well suited to cycling.

But then they can play music and dance like no white man can so I guess they win! ;0)

Hate to p1ss in your porridge mate but it's bullsh1t (the term 'biologic' is often used)!

Similar arguments are used to explain why blacks can't swim (too much muscle in the calves makes them rear heavy) or ski (blacks can't take the cold). I swim like a fish, used to ski both downhill and cross country (I used to love arctic deployments in the Marines!), I ride very well (no where near pro level though), I used to love kayaking and sailing but I can't play basketball, sing or dance and I'm not in the slightest bit musical!

It's much more to do with economics (disposable income, role models, opportunity etc. I was lucky in that I am able to afford cycling (which, lets face it is not a cheap sport) and, being fairly self-dependent, don't care about role models.

 

[rogerzilla]

There's a reasonable theory about the lack of Asian (I mean Indian subcontinent, not in the American sense) cyclists. Everyone back in the mother country may ride a Hero bicycle, but if you're over here then you've made it, you've left all that behind, you drive a CAR.

I would have thought the Kenyans could turn out some really good cyclists if they wanted to - look at the performaces of their distance runners, and they're small enough to make top climbers too.

 

[yenrod]

They - as in black: in my eyes i'm no different to a 'black guy' etc.. ive got 2 arms just like them, i've got 2 legs just like them, I can breath and see, just like them, in fact I and my brother - mr black man (what a ficking rediculous term) are soo similar I CANNOT TELL THE DIFFERENCE...

Ive never gone for this 'talking about them as though they are an insect or a bloody alien...

CAUSE AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED - THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE !



If you label/seperate - then that in itself is being rascist END OF !

 

[Mr Pig]

A lot of people reckon they've heard or read such stuff. It is indeed a load of rubbish .

I thought it might be. However it is plausible. Different races are visibly different on the outside so it's not unreasonable to assume they may have differences inside too. At the top level in sport it wouldn't take much to mean the difference between first and last.

Yenrod, get a grip. No one here is being racist and YOU are the one who's being offensive by suggesting that anyone here thinks that black people are being likened to aliens or insects. We are discussing the differences between racial groups. To suggest these differences do not exist is idiotic.

We used to have Nigerian friends and when you spend a lot of time with people from a very different race and culture you realise just how not the same you are.

 

[Globalti]

I go to Nigeria three times a year and have been there over 60 times, yet in all those weeks, mostly in Lagos, I have seen two chain gangs out on a Sunday and one solitary woman rider weaving suicidally through the city traffic. The roads are so bad, the weather either too hot or too wet, the traffic so dangerous and a bicycle is so expensive for most people who spend huge sums of money on rent and diesel for the gen, that there's precious little chance of seeing cyclists out training. On my last visit I finally got to hear about one Chief who ran the Nigerian cycling federation but when I phoned his office I was received with deep suspicion and asked to come and explain myself. I didn't have time to go downtown so that never came to anything.

 

[Danny]

They - as in black: in my eyes i'm no different to a 'black guy' etc.. ive got 2 arms just like them, i've got 2 legs just like them, I can breath and see, just like them, in fact I and my brother - mr black man (what a ficking rediculous term) are soo similar I CANNOT TELL THE DIFFERENCE...

Ive never gone for this 'talking about them as though they are an insect or a bloody alien...

CAUSE AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED - THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE !



If you label/seperate - then that in itself is being rascist END OF !

You are so busy being colour-blind that you have failed to notice that there are virtually no professional cyclists who are black.

Given that black athletes excel in so many other sports it is worth asking why they are so under-represented in cycling.

 

[ASC1951]

Hate to p1ss in your porridge mate but it's bullsh1t
...
It's much more to do with economics (disposable income, role models, opportunity etc.

It isn't bullshit, Chris. To suggest that there is no physiological difference between races is nonsense and one of the few areas where those differences matter is in top class sport.

There was an interesting programme on the Beeb a couple of years ago which took half a dozen different racial types and subjected them to moderately extreme conditions. These were all Western European second or third generation inhabitants, but the Ghanaian descendant struggled with the cold and an Inuit descendant couldn't cope with the heat, for example.

Obviously economics plays a factor in sport as well. Thirty or forty years ago the top athletes at almost every discipline were white. But look at the Berlin Championships or the last Olympics - the best sprinters from every country are Afro-Caribbean type, the best distance runners are high altitude African type, the best swimmers are all Caucasian. In these days when scouts can search the world for the best talent and athletes can change country easily, those different representations are definitely because of physical differences between the races.

Pro cycling is a tricky one. Sprinters, climbers and domestiques all need different body types, so I would agree with you that the absence of black riders from all categories must be economic. In due course I'm sure we shall see world class Ethiopian climbers and South African green jerseys.

 

[PK99]

I'm sure we shall see world class Ethiopian climbers and South African green jerseys.

Surely in the case of (say) Ethiopians or Kenyans the answer is simple economics : As a kid it costs nothing to run & natural talent can be spotted and developed by the well run schemes those countries have.

Cycling
a) costs money
needs paved roads

 

[Chrisz]

It isn't bullshit, Chris. To suggest that there is no physiological difference between races is nonsense and one of the few areas where those differences matter is in top class sport.

There was an interesting programme on the Beeb a couple of years ago which took half a dozen different racial types and subjected them to moderately extreme conditions. These were all Western European second or third generation inhabitants, but the Ghanaian descendant struggled with the cold and an Inuit descendant couldn't cope with the heat, for example.

I saw the same programme mate - an interesting but irrelevant conclusion! By this logic I should be able to run/cycle whatever quite happily in the nice warm weather we are having at the moment but I should not be able to cope with the -45 cold that we often encountered in the Arctic!

As it happens I thrived quite happily in arctic conditions - but then I also loved working in the jungle. Acclimatisation is the key - not genetics!

If I took half a dozen people from the UK and dumped them in Northern Norway in winter time they would suffer just as much as a Ghanaian!

The reason some races seem to have an advantage in sport is often actually due to exercise and diet history, social upbringing/lifestyle and motivation rather than genetics.

The average Kenyan runner can earn enough from one good season in Europe to support his (often rather extended by western standards) family for many years. Given that there are very few other opportunities for people from some areas to make anything of themselves is it any wonder they seem more motivated to succeed? Combine this hightened level of motivation with a lifelong history of running up and down hills/mountains each day, walking many miles, a healthy low-fat diet, a lack of smoking or alcohol, the muscle development (slow twitch fibre) that comes with years and years of aerobic work and it's little wonder that Ethiopians and Kenyans seem to have an advantage.

Negros tend to be under-represented in sports like cycling because of the high costs involved. Look at many other high cost sports (water sports, motor sport etc.) and you will see a similar pattern.

The few sports where negros tend to excel are those that require little in the way of outlay (cost of equipment & training facilities).

These are socio-economic factors not genetics.

Trying to account for differences in performance is a dangerous practice - Adolf tried it, others before him have tried it and so have black extremists.

For some people it's easier to blame race or genetics on good or poor performance and thereby ignore the root cause.

 

[yenrod]

You are so busy being colour-blind that you have failed to notice that there are virtually no professional cyclists who are black.

Given that black athletes excel in so many other sports it is worth asking why they are so under-represented in cycling.

Actually Danny, i think you'll find that its cycling thats ignoring the fact that they appear to be the colour-blind (BTW) do you want me to take offence on the fac that you use colour-blindness with no respect to me as I, am colour blind - no, i dont expect you too !!!

The fact is Danny, that - and ive said this before & had a thread on the old C+ site about this (subject) too !, society's got the problem with seeing white rather than any other colour...