Bike jacking, Richmond Park

[Regular.Cyclist]

There is a lot to say about situational awareness. I don’t know how light Richmond Park is at this time of year but would imagine that the sun comes up around 7am. There will be a lot of folk keen to get out while it’s quieter but that brings other risks with it.

I’m not a fighter, 5’ 10” and weight as much as a wet bath towel, and can’t run fast with cleated shoes so would probably go elsewhere for a ride.

I recall one instance from growing up when I was walking near my home. I was in my mid teens at the time. I was walking along a path behind a row of council garages when about a dozen people, of similar age, appeared on top of the garages and up the grass bank to my right.

One of them dropped down in front of me, another behind me. I noted the one behind kept a good distance but the one of front was a bit cockier. He approached, swinging punches in my direction but broadcast them long before so they were easy to dodge.

This went on for a couple of minutes, well it seemed like that at the time, till I was getting bored with it. He tried once again to try and punch me, in a particularly circuitous way, so I sent one of my own right down the middle. I caught him just below his left eye and the edge of his nose and he went down like a sack of potatoes.

Taking the opportunity of a clear path in front I legged it and got home without further issues.

I learned later that he’d been out cold for a while and my punch has fractured his eye socket and collapsed the nose cartilage into his face blocking his airway. He’d gone into respiratory arrest when the ambulance arrived and he ended up in hospital for two weeks.

That gained me a bit of a reputation that meant that the remainder of my time living there was trouble free.

 

[Rusty Nails]

Weapons are OK to a point. The danger is that if you're unskilled in it's use it comes down to physics - if your opponent is bigger than you they'll like as not take it off you and use it on you.

In the eighties the FBI were looking to update their defensive tactics training for agents. They went through over half a million felony assault reports to see what worked on the street, and what didn't. Sure, there was the occasional incident where the victim was a black belt death ninja and overpowered the aggressor, the odd one where the victim was tooled up and turned the tables, but the only factor that gave a consistently above average chance of a victim overcoming and attacker was...

Muscle mass.

I hope, if it ever happens to me, that the attackers is less than 10 1/2 stone, preferably over the age of 75, and does not have a knife/hammer/baseball bat.


The last time I got in a fight not on a sports pitch was in the 1960s. Coming home after a night out I was hassled by three rockers who thought I was a mod. I gave them some lip and basically got the shite kicked out of me. I learned then never to fight if I don't have team mates or a ref to help me.out.

 

[Drago]

There is a lot to say about situational awareness. I don’t know how light Richmond Park is at this time of year but would imagine that the sun comes up around 7am. There will be a lot of folk keen to get out while it’s quieter but that brings other risks with it.

I’m not a fighter, 5’ 10” and weight as much as a wet bath towel, and can’t run fast with cleated shoes so would probably go elsewhere for a ride.

I recall one instance from growing up when I was walking near my home. I was in my mid teens at the time. I was walking along a path behind a row of council garages when about a dozen people, of similar age, appeared on top of the garages and up the grass bank to my right.

One of them dropped down in front of me, another behind me. I noted the one behind kept a good distance but the one of front was a bit cockier. He approached, swinging punches in my direction but broadcast them long before so they were easy to dodge.

This went on for a couple of minutes, well it seemed like that at the time, till I was getting bored with it. He tried once again to try and punch me, in a particularly circuitous way, so I sent one of my own right down the middle. I caught him just below his left eye and the edge of his nose and he went down like a sack of potatoes.

Taking the opportunity of a clear path in front I legged it and got home without further issues.

I learned later that he’d been out cold for a while and my punch has fractured his eye socket and collapsed the nose cartilage into his face blocking his airway. He’d gone into respiratory arrest when the ambulance arrived and he ended up in hospital for two weeks.

That gained me a bit of a reputation that meant that the remainder of my time living there was trouble free.

My oldest daughter is a black belt in TKD, Karate and Muay Thai, and now does white collar boxing.

Anyway, many years ago when she was at college she had a part time job at McDonalds. Walking home one night two sheetbags tried to rob her. She put up a fight and suffered a broken jaw, but she managed to hit one so hard she split his stomach open. He ran off a few yards and collapsed puking up blood.

Both went to prison, and doubtless stomach boy will think twice before crossing a girl again.

 

[ianrauk]

Way back a good few years now, a CycleChatter (no longer of this parish) had his bike stolen whilst in Richmond Park.

 

[Vantage]

The best advice I was given in that sort of situation was to use the bike as a guard between me and the scumguzzler and if necessary, use it as a weapon.
The police can throw all the assault charges they want at me, but I'm not giving my bike that I bought with my money to some thieving pos without a fight.

 

[icowden]

The best advice I was given in that sort of situation was to use the bike as a guard between me and the scumguzzler and if necessary, use it as a weapon.
The police can throw all the assault charges they want at me, but I'm not giving my bike that I bought with my money to some thieving pos without a fight.

There is no need to fear an assault charge if you can be reasonably seen to be acting in self-defence - and the reasonably can stretch a long way. For example if you are a young girl, terrified and you somehow manage to beat your 6ft attacker to a pulp, it could still be argued that the defensive force was reasonable given the situation. On the other hand if you are a 6 foot 4 Brisk sh$tehouse like Reacher, it might not be considered reasonably if you continued beating your assailant to a pulp once you had knocked them down, unless you thought that they were trying to reach a knife for example. It's about the person defending themselves, the situation and the attacker rather than the weapons used.

In both of the examples that Drago posted the force used was reasonable.

You tend to get charged with assault if you start pursuing someone who has stopped attacking you and is running away (see Tony Martin for example).

But honestly - the best advice if someone tries to steal your bike, is to let them steal it and just claim on the insurance. If they have a knife you are likely dead or severely injured and you may not need a bike any more. If there is more than one of them, it's even higher risk. Real life isn't the movies where the bad guys conveniently attack you one at a time.

 

[steveindenmark]

Bromptons have been targeted like this for years and are rarely recovered. I have thought for a long time that they are stolen to order, possibly by one person and shipped maybe to Asia. No self respecting skrote would be seen dead on one.

In the 70s, hatching a plan and sitting In wait for these miscreants with half a dozen mates. Would be called Saturday sport. We would not care if you had a knife. Because you would get battered with a big bit of wood.

Its a pity Drago and I don't live in London 😀

 

[Baldy]

Weapons are OK to a point. The danger is that if you're unskilled in it's use it comes down to physics - if your opponent is bigger than you they'll like as not take it off you and use it on you.

In the eighties the FBI were looking to update their defensive tactics training for agents. They went through over half a million felony assault reports to see what worked on the street, and what didn't. Sure, there was the occasional incident where the victim was a black belt death ninja and overpowered the aggressor, the odd one where the victim was tooled up and turned the tables, but the only factor that gave a consistently above average chance of a victim overcoming and attacker was...

Muscle mass.

I can't remember the exact numbers now but I read a survey compiled I think by the FBI. They looked into weapon used in homicides a staggering number of victims were killed by their own guns.

 

[steveindenmark]

I can't remember the exact numbers now but I read a survey compiled I think by the FBI. They looked into weapon used in homicides a staggering number of victims were killed by their own guns.

If you have got 10 guys and 2 skrotes. I doubt if weapons would even come into it. But if it does just deal with it.

 

[fossyant]

This thing does happen. Off road commuter routes (Bristol Path, Chester Millenium Walkway, Fallowfield Loop) because scroats know these stretches can be isolated. We had an issue locally at Farmer John's downhill park. Folks with vehicles were waiting for MTBers to leave on their bikes (locals) before jumping them and robbing them.

It's easy money. When I got jumped by four lads on the Fallowfield Loop, it was five in the afternoon, sunny, and busy with cyclists, runners and walkers. This was four lads the police recon they knew the gang. They were after the bike. They assume a regular commuter has a decent bike especially if in bike gear (baggies and a red cycling top in my case). They weren't to know I was on a thirty year old MTB that's not worth much (despite being mint and covered in Deore XT).

I didn't have time to do much. One tried to block me, I swerved, the next threw a hard tail in front of me. I just smashed through it as my MTB is heavy with two panniers and me on it. Fortunately I stayed upright.

It's all right saying you'd fight, but they often go tooled up and a screwdriver or knife in the wrong place and your days are over. They don't care. They don't think what might happen if someone is forceably pushed off a bike (not too difficult to get broken bones, spine or pelvis).

 

[Drago]

I hope, if it ever happens to me, that the attackers is less than 10 1/2 stone, preferably over the age of 75, and does not have a knife/hammer/baseball bat.


The last time I got in a fight not on a sports pitch was in the 1960s. Coming home after a night out I was hassled by three rockers who thought I was a mod. I gave them some lip and basically got the shite kicked out of me. I learned then never to fight if I don't have team mates or a ref to help me.out.

I spent best part of 30 years getting into fights armed with little more than an assertive voice, and I'm happy to give any sheetbags that come for me the benefit of that experience.

 

[icowden]

I spent best part of 30 years getting into fights armed with little more than an assertive voice, and I'm happy to give any sheetbags that come for me the benefit of that experience.

I think you may be the exception rather than the rule ;-) You have also described yourself as being not substantially smaller than Reacher. One of my best friends at uni was 6 ft 3, wiry and was colour blind meaning that he had very pale grey eyes. He was very good at looking terrifying, which assisted him in his part time career as a barman. He could back it up as he had done some martial arts training, but seldom actually needed to. Looking terrifying was usually enough to solve problems. 99% of the time if he was chucking someone out, they just went.

 

[All uphill]

There is no need to fear an assault charge if you can be reasonably seen to be acting in self-defence - and the reasonably can stretch a long way. For example if you are a young girl, terrified and you somehow manage to beat your 6ft attacker to a pulp, it could still be argued that the defensive force was reasonable given the situation. On the other hand if you are a 6 foot 4 Brisk sh$tehouse like Reacher, it might not be considered reasonably if you continued beating your assailant to a pulp once you had knocked them down, unless you thought that they were trying to reach a knife for example. It's about the person defending themselves, the situation and the attacker rather than the weapons used.

In both of the examples that Drago posted the force used was reasonable.

You tend to get charged with assault if you start pursuing someone who has stopped attacking you and is running away (see Tony Martin for example).

But honestly - the best advice if someone tries to steal your bike, is to let them steal it and just claim on the insurance. If they have a knife you are likely dead or severely injured and you may not need a bike any more. If there is more than one of them, it's even higher risk. Real life isn't the movies where the bad guys conveniently attack you one at a time.

If they stopped me to steal my bike I would bore them into submission, telling them how to use the bar end shifters combined with Rapid Rise derailleur, the best tyre pressures and the best way to care for the chain.




And no, I am not serious.

 

[Drago]

If they stopped me to steal my bike I would bore them into submission, telling them how to use the bar end shifters combined with Rapid Rise derailleur, the best tyre pressures and the best way to care for the chain.




And no, I am not serious.

Just tell them the bike is rapid rise equipped. They'll soon move on.

 

[Profpointy]

I had three try and rob me once at a cashpoint, despite me being bigger than all of them combined at an inch shorter and 20lbs heavier than Reacher.

They threatened to shank me, but no one was eager to actually show me a knife which suggested they were bluffing. Nutted one very heavily, smacked another and ran for all I was worth.

It was righteous, but rather than spend months answering questions from PSD I kept schtum. It wasn't my county, my car was some distance away so they didn't have a reg, I took my chances.

Unless they have a gun and actually show it to me they can ferk off, they're not having it.

Something similar happened to a work colleague. He was at a cashpoint very late at night in what was a somewhat dodgy part of Bristol when two blokes demanded the money. He asked them "are you threatening me?" which rather confused the assailants but one did answer "well, yes". He then said "Well you've come to the wrong place pal", which should have indicated a considerable degree of self confidence from someone faced with two criminals threatening violence. One assailant was hospitalised and the other merely hurt and a police car quickly arrived and my workmate was arrested. In the early hours of the morning the police let him out of his cell saying "We've reviewed the CCTV footage. Good effort Sir! Sorry for the inconvenience" and gave him a lift home. Dunno if the injured robber was prosecuted. Whilst he wasn't a particularly big bloke and came across as quietly spoken, calm and unaggressive, but he'd been on the army, done a bit of tai kwon do, and worked as a bouncer so was quite handy in such matters if required.