Better design of HGVs is key to improving safety for cyclists

[Deleted member 26715]

OK, so you'd only be stuck at junctions? Once the vehicle at the side moves, the one behind it will follow and also be bigger than you, then the one behind that...

No, the vehicle at the side of you starts to move, it is clear it's not turning left so you start to move, it's not complicated

 

[mjr]

No, the vehicle at the side of you starts to move, it is clear it's not turning left so you start to move, it's not complicated

So you get left-hooked by the second lorry not the first. Whoopee(!)

 

[Deleted member 26715]

So you get left-hooked by the second lorry not the first. Whoopee(!)

Okay you win, have it your way, if you don't want to have a serious discussion.

 

[classic33]

An excellent recipe to stop almost all urban cycling ever! Maybe a few people will be able to complete their journeys late at night. Might makes right, huh?

Why? I cycle on A-roads, and once you realise that although the lorry is in the right-hand lane the driver may just require the extra room to make a corner.

And having cycled the same A-roads in the early hours, there's often just as many lorries on them as during the day. Responsibility isn't just down to the lorry driver for your safety.

If you feel unsafe on the roads, best advice I can give is to stay off them.

 

[classic33]

Because there are rarely gaps longer than a few seconds between vehicles bigger than you. If you're going to have to wait for all of them, you're going to get nowhere fast.

Why not simply get away from the side of the road. You'll then be in your own piece of road, within the traffic(Of which you are part) flow.

 

[mustang1]

Some truck drivers, due to the way they are paid, are forc d to drive inconsiderately. Having said that, it's probable they will drive that way regardless of how they are paid .

The designs of the trucks should be changed: lower front windscreen, side protection, things like that .

Need to look at another way of transporting goods in the city, maybe use two smaller trucks rather than one large one .

Give the drivers more time to make their deliveries without penalties.

I haven't seen it lately so maybe things have improved, but some cyclists need to stop buzzing around like flies and be a bit more considerate. Again, I haven't seen it for a while, but some cyclists need to understand extra care required while over/under taking.

There is no need for cyclists to always get to the front in a queue of traffic waiting at red lights.

 

[Mugshot]

Some truck drivers, due to the way they are paid, are forc d to drive inconsiderately.

No they're not, they may be encouraged or feel obliged, but they're not forced to drive like daffodils.

 

[mjr]

Why not simply get away from the side of the road. You'll then be in your own piece of road, within the traffic(Of which you are part) flow.

How far "away from the side of the road" would I need to be to stop a lorry pulling up in a lane to my right? Or if I'm in the rightmost lane, what stops a right-turning lorry pulling up on my left? (as has happened in London once...)

There is no need for cyclists to always get to the front in a queue of traffic waiting at red lights.

There is, but we could argue about whether it's worth the risk at the minute.

 

[Deleted member 26715]

Some truck drivers, due to the way they are paid, are forc d to drive inconsiderately. Having said that, it's probable they will drive that way regardless of how they are paid .

No they're not, they may be encouraged or feel obliged, but they're not forced to drive like daffodils.

This is correct, I used to do 2 runs, one from Doncaster to Glasgow (well just outside) & Worksop to deepest darkest Norfolk, both routes had long stretches of single carriageway A roads A66 & A17, both at the time were 40mph for HGV's I would regularly get a call on the way asking why I wasn't there yet & that other drivers seemed to get there in less time than me. My response was the same, it's my license, my living, I will always obey the speed limit, if you don't like it don't put me on these runs.

 

[Deleted member 26715]

There is, but we could argue about whether it's worth the risk at the minute.

I know this is getting monotonous but again Why?

 

[glasgowcyclist]

Well obviously i cant research every single incident of that that has ever happened. But in those incidences, just saying i didn't see the cyclist is not a sure fire defence to get off.
Its not really a defence at all without other mitigating circumstances.
If i were to drive my car into a cyclist and kill them, its highly likely i'll be charged with some sort of driving offence, from driving with undue care and attention to causing death by dangerous driving. So i turn up at court and my only defence is.... 'well i didn't see them'...Would this be guaranteed to to only get a light sentence or let off ?
I dont think so.

There are many cases of the justice system failing the victim in such circumstances but the Michael Mason case is probably the most memorable. Driver could not account for driving straight into the back of Mr Mason and killing him as he road his legally compliant bicycle on a well-lit Regent St. Didn't see him ahead of her. Claimed she didn't see him even as his body bounced of the bonnet.
No charges by police.

 

[Smudge]

There are many cases of the justice system failing the victim in such circumstances but the Michael Mason case is probably the most memorable. Driver could not account for driving straight into the back of Mr Mason and killing him as he road his legally compliant bicycle on a well-lit Regent St. Didn't see him ahead of her. Claimed she didn't see him even as his body bounced of the bonnet.
No charges by police.

There is bad sentencing in all types of convictions. A lot of it will come down to how good the lawyer in the defense and how they highlight any mitigating circumstances.
But just because some bad drivers that kill or seriously injure cyclists get off lightly, it doesn't mean they all do. I've heard of drivers going down for killing cyclists, motorcyclists, pedestrians, or even other drivers. A quick Google search will provide any cases to suit anyone's point of view.
The fact is, i see many bad drivers all the time, so we all know they're out there.... We can only do our best to ride defensively and take responsibility for our own safety, to at least try to lessen any incidents we might get into.

 

[mjr]

I know this is getting monotonous but again Why?

A cyclist in the front position is most often noticed by following traffic, especially compared to waiting by the kerb. It reduces the risk of being ‘cut up’ by turning traffic, it avoids having to breathe exhaust fumes and it removes the risk of being the "sandwich meat" in the far too common nose-tail shunts of queuing motorists. It enables easier positioning for right turns. Finally, it keeps cycling fast and convenient, which helps to encourage cycling as a mode of transport in line with local and national policies. So there is a need, but as I wrote, it's debatable whether it's always worth the risks.

 

[mjr]

But just because some bad drivers that kill or seriously injure cyclists get off lightly, it doesn't mean they all do. I've heard of drivers going down for killing cyclists, motorcyclists, pedestrians, or even other drivers. A quick Google search will provide any cases to suit anyone's point of view.

It might not mean they all get off lightly but @Slick already linked to the shocking average that 6 out of 7 avoid jail in https://www.cyclechat.net/posts/5451259 - If you're hearing of many of the 1 in 7, that's a bit odd.

The fact is, i see many bad drivers all the time, so we all know they're out there.... We can only do our best to ride defensively and take responsibility for our own safety, to at least try to lessen any incidents we might get into.

Riding defensively is far from the "only" thing we can do! Part of "take responsibility for our own safety" is to push for things like better HGV design, better policing and saner sentencing... basically the ongoing Road Justice campaign and Stop The Killing and so on.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

There is bad sentencing in all types of convictions. A lot of it will come down to how good the lawyer in the defense and how they highlight any mitigating circumstances.
But just because some bad drivers that kill or seriously injure cyclists get off lightly, it doesn't mean they all do. I've heard of drivers going down for killing cyclists, motorcyclists, pedestrians, or even other drivers. A quick Google search will provide any cases to suit anyone's point of view.
The fact is, i see many bad drivers all the time, so we all know they're out there.... We can only do our best to ride defensively and take responsibility for our own safety, to at least try to lessen any incidents we might get into.

You were casting doubt on the efficacy of SMIDSY as a defence. Sadly, it's an excellent defence.


And by the way, five out of six drivers involved in fatal collisions with cyclists avoid prison, and less than a third lose their licence. Driving privileges are well protected, people cycling or walking? Meh...