Better design of HGVs is key to improving safety for cyclists

[Deleted member 26715]

A cyclist in the front position is most often noticed by following traffic, especially compared to waiting by the kerb. It reduces the risk of being ‘cut up’ by turning traffic, it avoids having to breathe exhaust fumes and it removes the risk of being the "sandwich meat" in the far too common nose-tail shunts of queuing motorists. It enables easier positioning for right turns. Finally, it keeps cycling fast and convenient, which helps to encourage cycling as a mode of transport in line with local and national policies. So there is a need, but as I wrote, it's debatable whether it's always worth the risks.

So there is no need, it's just your desire

 

[mjr]

So there is no need, it's just your desire

So, to you, all of those are desires not needs? Avoiding being squished in a nose-tail shunt is merely a desire, not a need? Having cleaner air to breathe is merely a desire not a need? If that's your view, then you're welcome to it!

 

[Deleted member 26715]

So, to you, all of those are desires not needs? Avoiding being squished in a nose-tail shunt is merely a desire, not a need? Having cleaner air to breathe is merely a desire not a need? If that's your view, then you're welcome to it!

Yes, because apart from the air, which will not really be any better, you are prepared to put yourself KNOWINGLY in danger to save yourself a few seconds, i think you need to recalibrate your own thoughts before blaming everybody else for theirs.

 

[mjr]

Yes, because apart from the air, which will not really be any better, you are prepared to put yourself KNOWINGLY in danger to save yourself a few seconds, i think you need to recalibrate your own thoughts before blaming everybody else for theirs.

I think that's obsessing on a minor benefit and ignoring the bigger needs, so it's not my calibration that's off.

 

[classic33]

How far "away from the side of the road" would I need to be to stop a lorry pulling up in a lane to my right? Or if I'm in the rightmost lane, what stops a right-turning lorry pulling up on my left? (as has happened in London once...)


There is, but we could argue about whether it's worth the risk at the minute.

Nothing, same as for a car.

As for turning right, the extra room may be required to make the turn. The same as for left-hand turns, where the driver has to take the right-hand lane.

What's to stop you keeping your eyes and ears open, and realising that your safety is down to you first and foremost.

dafety corrected to safety

 

[mjr]

What's to stop you keeping your eyes and ears open, and realising that your dafety is down to you first and foremost.

Maybe the same that stops you acknowledging that there are limits to cyclists' ability to ward off badly-driven HGVs?

 

[Markymark]

Yes, because apart from the air, which will not really be any better, you are prepared to put yourself KNOWINGLY in danger to save yourself a few seconds, i think you need to recalibrate your own thoughts before blaming everybody else for theirs.

Most cyclists ride defensively. We avoid dangerous positions as best as we can. There are many situations where if we are to move st all we must rely on the huge road users around us to be aware of us. We do what we can to be seen but rely on someone moving 20t to do so mindfully and properly. What they have at their disposal is potentially very dangerous. What we expect then is for them to not only be aware of this but to be open to all improvements to make it less hazardous even if it’s at their cost and convenience.

The problem we have is the cyclists are all simply told the roads are dangerous, we should protect ourselves, we should get out of everyone’s way as it’s our responsibility to not get killed.

I don’t want to be killed. But I also want to cycle abd I expect people in big machines to allow me to do this safely. I also want to live in a city that priorities this. This will be costly and inconvenient to large lorries. But tough. They are killing people. They must accept more restrictions.

I say again, I never ever cycle up the inside of large vehicles. Yet I find myself there. Because of their poor driving. I try and prevent them from doing so but it’s hard to use my 70kg against their 20t to manage this.

 

[classic33]

Maybe the same that stops you acknowledging that there are limits to cyclists' ability to ward off badly-driven HGVs?

Nothing stopping me from knowing that flesh and bone will always loose against steel. But I'm willing to accept that in staying safe on the roads, I have to put my safety first.

 

[Deleted member 26715]

I think that's obsessing on a minor benefit and ignoring the bigger needs, so it's not my calibration that's off.

Okay you;re a big boy & I'm not your dad so continue as you are in your bubble, it appears you're not prepared to listen to anyone elses view.

 

[mjr]

Nothing stopping me from knowing that flesh and bone will always loose against steel. But I'm willing to accept that in staying safe on the roads, I have to put my safety first.

I do put my safety first, but I accept that sometimes there are limits to what I can do and if I stop and wait every time a larger vehicle is near, the journey will take much longer and that added journey time in itself will expose me to more danger.

 

[mjr]

Okay you;re a big boy & I'm not your dad so continue as you are in your bubble, it appears you're not prepared to listen to anyone elses view.

To the contrary - I answered your "why" about the need to be near the front of a red light queue by pasting in someone else's view from the camcycle briefing on it!

 

[Deleted member 26715]

[QUOTE 5454218, member: 9609"]Cars are bloody dangerous things[/QUOTE]
Nope I disagree there, although there are some dangerous vehicles, it's mainly down to the driver/owner

 

[mjr]

The figures look much worse if you look at numbers of vehicles registered, of course, because HGVs and vans are more likely to be working vehicles that are used more.

 

[mustang1]

No they're not, they may be encouraged or feel obliged, but they're not forced to drive like daffodils.

True that.
An operator may tell their driver to arrive within 20 minutes or they will no longer have a job. Technically, they are not being forced, but merely encouraged/obliged. But the end result is similar to being forced; one doesn't need a gun pointed to head in order to feel forced. I think?

 

[mustang1]

How far "away from the side of the road" would I need to be to stop a lorry pulling up in a lane to my right? Or if I'm in the rightmost lane, what stops a right-turning lorry pulling up on my left? (as has happened in London once...)


There is, but we could argue about whether it's worth the risk at the minute.

I can only speak for myself in the city where I ride: if the traffic lights have been red for a while and there's a queue of traffic, I'll stay behind the cars with no need to get to the front; I'll take centre position behind the car, much like a motorcyclist may do.