Best Type Of Bike Lock?

[davidwalton]

You're right you know. This stuff isn't bike specific, and it's really cheap-

http://www.ashleychains.co.uk/detail-20.php?CatType=D1

it's also plastic. The Security chains on that site, plus a padlock are similar in cost to many Chain locks I have seen on Bike sites.

only time it gets cheap is if buying in bulk, and few individuals require loads of chain.

 

[davidwalton]

You missed the joke.

I always do

 

[fossyant]

I've got a large Onguard Beast chain - and it is a Beast - about £30-£35 if you look round (chain reaction did do them - can't see item now) and it's solid - weight is almost 10lbs - took it to work in the car at a weekend rather than damage my rucksack. That coupled with a D-lock in a public place (overlooked by colleagues offices) should be about as secure as I can get, bearing in mind other bikes are generally badly locked.

I don't buy the make your bike scruffy, I see a few like that at the Universities locally (i.e. taped up and stuff) but one second longer look and you can see the quality of the components... but I've got a trained (cyclist's) eye.

 

[Tynan]

why the joke?

locksmiths sell proper security kit, including chains and padlocks you're very unlikely to find in a bike shop or diy shop

 

[davidwalton]

Don't forget that a chain and lock has to be approved by your insurance company, or no payout if stolen.

It does not matter that the chain and lock combo you use is better either. Unless it has been through the recognised standards check, it is worth nothing. It will be the standards authority that make the lock more expensive as well.

 

[davidwalton]

It depends on your insurance company. Some aren't bothered as long as you tell them that it was locked up and give a crime number. Others can be much more specific.

Some aren't bothered??????? which?

Every Insurance companies intent is to not pay unless they have to. If it is not openly apparent about any lock requirement, then require from the Insurance company a signed legal statement that it doesn't matter what lock you use as long as you do use a lock.

The 3 main Cycle Insurance companies all require specific standard of lock to be used. Those being EandL, Butterworth, and CycleGuard. House insurance policies that also cover a bike, either in part or whole, may be different as the risk is not based solely on the cycle.

I have been down the path of expecting reason from insurance companies only to discover that unless you can prove 100% that you are in the right, they don't care. Make sure you will still be covered by using a £1.99 lock and chain on your £500 plus bike before........

to me, that is not taking reasonable care, and probably covered in some way in the policy (hidden somewhere).

 

[davidwalton]

3 main cycle insurance companies????? Most household policies will cover bikes away from home. But you've noted that yourself above. I've used several, and none yet have stipulated a type of lock. i've known several people have payouts from stolen bikes who weren't asked what type of lock they were using.

Unless you're riding a particularly expensive bike which your home insurance company won't cover, you're wasting your money going with a cycle-specific company.

Try buying a decent (in my mind) recumbent cycle for much less than £1,000. Try to get a house insurance not to laugh at you when you ask if they will then cover your £2,000 recumbent under the house policy.

Try getting a house insurance company to cover ONLY your cycle.

Most house policies WILL cover cheaper cycles, and a few will cover more expensive ones. Rely on a cheap lock on a decent bike and you then take the gamble of insurance paying up. If you are lucky, great. I no longer play the gamble = I check. If you don't, or think because others managed to get a payout then it will happen for you, I hope it does.

BTW- I am talking about standards of lock, not a specific type.

 

[davidwalton]

As I said, if you have an expensive bike you'll need to go elsewhere.

Most of us have house insurance.

Mine covers single bikes up to £800 I think. That's not cheap, and it's not at all unusual.

My lock is Gold rated. I got it for £30.

I did check. What I didn't do is listen to incorrect information which suggests that I should go to a cycle-specific insurance company and pay more than I need to.

We're at that place again where we need to be giving out balanced information and not try to claim that everyone else should be paying more than they need to.

No, we are at that place where you are not reading what I write again, or you are fishing. All I have said is to CHECK with insurance companies, and ENSURE you have a decent lock. If that is wrong, then

I also have House insurance.

I think £800 is cheaper. Never said it was CHEAP though.

I suggest all cyclists SHOULD have decent locks. Cycle locks are rated up to Gold standard, which MANY insurance companies require, and all cycle specific insurers I checked. The cheaper the bike, the lower the standard of lock required. Perhaps a £800 bike is cheap enough for insurance companies not to care much about?

I NEVER said you or anyone else should pay MORE on insurance, or get cycle specific insurance, but there is a huge difference in security between a CHEAP £1.99 lock, and a Gold standard lock.

If anything here is incorrect In YOUR opinion, then ask. Don't make incorrect statements based on things you THINK I wrote.

 

[davidwalton]

I can see what you wrote. You said that a chain and lock has to be approved by your insurance company. Then you quote 3 cycle-specific companies as proof.

A colleague at work had his bike nicked from outside the office a couple of months back. His insurance company didn't ask what lock he used before they sent the cheque out.

You said don't buy a cheap lock for a decent bike. That's too vague for someone reading this who wants advice. A cheap lock on a decent bike can be fine. Our police will sell you a silver rated lock for £5. That's very cheap, and a pretty good lock. I know, as I've got two. I've already said that I got my gold rated lock for £30. A decent bike can be had for £300, and arguably 50% less than that.

Your average cyclist would be wasting his/her money going to a cycle-specific insurance company. Yes, they need to make sure of cover before taking out insurance, but that's the case for any insurance cover. Let's not suggest that people have to pay over the odds when they don't. Or confusing people by suggesting that a decent bike is one that cost the same amount as you paid. That's where we've been before.

Point 1. Cycle specific insurers provide on-line the fact that specific STANDARD of locks is required. House insurers do not, but they COULD still require such standard of lock to be used. YOU MUST CHECK.

Point 2. Colleague at work. Good for him. I would still check, and advise others to as well though.

Point 3. cost and being vague. Sorry.. If you buy a bike valued between £50 and £100, spend X amount, if between £100 and £200, spend Y, and if between....etc.

A decent lock is either Silver standard for cheaper bikes, or Gold standard for more costly ones, and those not wanting to lose their bike like me should use at least 2 Gold standard locks of different types. ie. one D-Lock and one Cable or Chain lock.

Point 4. Again with the cycle specific insurance. NEVER NEVER SAID anyone should get cycle specific insurance. I used them as an example to show the standard of lock requirement. NOTHING ELSE!!!

It is generally recognised (hopefully by you as well) that one SHOULD spend in the region of 10% of the cost of a bike on security. A £1.99 lock is a waste of money on a bike, unless sat next to a more appealing bike with no lock on it. Anyone wanting to take that gamble, then fine.

However, lets remember that there are a lot of bikes stolen every year, and the numbers are not going to go down unless cyclists start thinking more about security, and insurance will never be a reasonable cost until the risk of theft is substantially reduced.

The simple answer is to shoot all thieves. Won't then need to worry about cycle theft, and only need insurance for accidents.

Every bike theft has an impact on the insurance we all pay, whether through a house insurance or with a cycle specific insurer. We all pay for the cost of thefts. If you want cheaper insurance, get the message across that security is important. As such, spending a little more on security is NEVER a waste of money.

 

[davidwalton]

I'm not going to respond to all of that because it'll get tedious for everyone else. But thanks for clarifying the ambiguity.

Suffice to say that you don't have to spend loads of money on a lock or on your insurance to get the cover and security that is best for you. As important is where you keep your bike.

Suffice to say that I never disagreed with you in the first place about insurance cost

However, I would always recommend a decent standard of lock over one that is no standard, and the cheaper the insurance that can be bought that does cover everything required the better.

As for the importance of where you keep your bike. I presume you are now talking about common sense things like locking your bike in a lit public area, rather than a back street which is unlit and where hardly anyone goes. Locking your bike in a public lit area is better, but does not detract from using a decent lock. The public will generally ignore a thieves attempts to steal a bike, unless it is very obvious, and then only if lucky. Best public area are those with CCTV that is working and manned with people that care.

You just can't get away from having decent locks. Yes, everything else matters, but a decent lock matters more. No, you do not need to spend a fortune on locks either. Silver/Gold standard locks can be purchased fairly cheaply, as you have pointed out already.

 

[Twenty Inch]

Bunfight.

I wonder whether the OP is still around?

 

[davidwalton]

Bunfight.

No fight. Just making sure that there is no misunderstanding and the things I write between lines are clear

 

[GrahamG]

M&S home insurance won't laugh at a £2k recumbent, they don't even require items to be listed on the policy if they are worth less than £4k (IIRC). I did ask about lock standards and was told that it just had to be locked to an immovable object. Of course I still have sold secure rated gold/silver locks because I'm paranoid about it

 

[davidwalton]

M&S home insurance won't laugh at a £2k recumbent, they don't even require items to be listed on the policy if they are worth less than £4k (IIRC). I did ask about lock standards and was told that it just had to be locked to an immovable object. Of course I still have sold secure rated gold/silver locks because I'm paranoid about it

Yes, I intend to look in to House Insurance policies more closely when ours is up for renewal. Until then though, I had no choice but to use a cycle specific insurance.

I have found that insurance companies cover themselves by making general statements like you agree to take care, and ensure care is taken, etc. As long as you can show you are taking care, no problem generally. Just don't expect or rely on an insurance company to pay out when due care has not been taken, unless it makes it absolutely clear in the policy that it doesn't matter whether you have taken reasonable care or not.

 

[davidwalton]

BTW- Even M&S have the following:-

"To make sure that you are covered you have certain duties which are explained in your Policy Booklet under "Your Responsibilities Under This Policy" and "What You must do in the event of a claim". These include your duty to take reasonable steps to prevent injury, loss or damage and what you must do as soon as you are aware of a possible claim under the policy"

Taken from their site at http://www6.marksandspencer.com/pages/default.asp?PageId=PolSum&Product=HI

Notice the reasonable steps to prevent loss bit. No lock at all is not reasonable, and it COULD easily be argued that unless a good standard of lock is used then reasonable steps have not been taken. All depends on what is considered reasonable, and what if any difference there is between an insurers idea of reasonable and yours??

Things can very quickly become very grey, and grey means the Insurers can choose not to payout.