Ben Goldacre - Helmet 'Bad Science'

[Wobblers]

Someone said to me about the value of mitigation in the many climate change threads i participated in should not be dismissed . Is safety gear for vulnerable road users not the same sort of ideal ?

There is no good evidence to support the efficacy of helmet wearing. The best studies, whole population epidemiological studies do not demonstrate any benefit to helmet wearing. Your comparison, as with so much else of your trolling, lacks the substance of evidence.

 

[Linford]

There is no good evidence to support the efficacy of helmet wearing. The best studies, whole population epidemiological studies do not demonstrate any benefit to helmet wearing. Your comparison, as with so much else of your trolling, lacks the substance of evidence.

If i didn't wear one myself the accusation of trolling would be a valid one. All the pictures of me show i do. To assert my belief is trolling now...very good. As for cycling not being much more dangerous than cars....they already sit in steel cages and are restrained with seat belts. Cycling is many more times more dangerous than travelling in a car per km

 

[steveindenmark]

I must admit to being a victim of all this psyco babble. I have four cycle helmets but I only wear them when I feel like it, which is not often. There is such divided opinion as to whether they would do you any good at all, if you were in a high speed off or a collision with a car. You cannot even get a consistent answer from people who have come off bikes as to whether the helmet was a help or hindrance. Even the industry is not clear as to what sort of collision they are of use for. Sportive arrangers make you wear them on the grounds of insurance, not safety.

My view now is the same for viz vests. It is a personal choice and everyone should accept it as such. Otherwise the topic just gets recycled again and again, with the same results.

Steve

 

[Linford]

You're not very good on the humility front.

On the subject of helmets, cycling and major injuries, well I had my turn 18 months ago. I wasn't wearing a helmet. Just as well, for I would have struck my head on the ground at 25 mph (helmets add bulk to your head, and the brusises on my shoulder bear testiment as to how close my head came to the ground) had I been. I worked out the torque that would have been applied to my neck had I been wearing a helmet. It turned out that it exceeded the torsional strength of cortical bone. Most likely I would have torn tendons, muscles and ligaments, and spent the next 8+ weeks in a cervical collar. That is, after the terrifying experience of lying in the middle of the road not daring to move and being ambulanced on blues and twos to A&E. Doubtless I would have been informed by some quack as to how my "helmet had saved my life". And I would still have broken four bones in my ankle. This is the best case scenario.

What, in your incessent trolling, you fail to realise (and it doesn't matter whether it is through arrogance or ignorance) is that there are situations that helmets not merely don't help, they actually make things worse - by increasing the rotational mass, by increasing the probability of head impact, by transferring loads to vulnerable structures.

Really...now my opinion is that you got lucky in the way you fell...the thing about an accident is you are not in control of the situation...you cannot control what you connect with, and unless you are a practiced gymnast would struggle to orientate yourself into a position where you can decide what hits the road first.

If you had gone head first over the bars you would more than likely have no choice in the matter.

 

[Linford]

Do occupants of cars ever acquire head injuries?

Of course they do, but then the vast majority of modern cars have a multitude of airbags andthe forces are much greater....it is funny you say this because a very common cause of death at the wheel back before the 60s was actually by being skewered by the steering column...then some bright spark came up with a collapsable section in its construction.....saved thousands of lives.

 

[Linford]

Even with the metal cage, seatbelts, and airbags. Perhaps helmets need to be added don't you think?

Compulsory in competitive motorsport

 

[Linford]

Irrelevant sidestep Linf.

OK, where there is an increased likelihood that the vehicle is going to connect with another, and it lacks air bags and other in built passenger protection devices, it is entirely sensible to wear a lid....especially when in such close proximity to roll cages and other such components in the passenger compartment..

 

[Linford]

Why not in the ordinary going to work, school run, shops type of driving? Despite the seatbelts, airbags, crumple zones etc people still acquire head injuries. Why no helmets for them?

You need to read my posts more thoroughly...I've alreadty covered this up thread ^

 

[StuartG]

Assuming 100 % effectiveness, and that all deaths could be prevented....and of course universal wearing
[...]
8.5 Cyclists

So. say 1,000,000 helmets @ £20 to save 8.5 lives. That's £235,000 per life. NICE appear to value life at about £30,000 so would we not be better advised to write a cheque for the benefit of the NHS rather than selfishly buying the ultimate helmet if it could even exist? Frankly the statistics suggest the effort of producing the ultimate helmet is not worth it. Better (and easier?) to create a viral YouTube video on the dangers of chainsaws?

Which brings me nicely to the efficacy of helmet debates. If we are to believe the BBC claim that an hour spent cycling gives around an hour of extra life - would it not be better we devoted the time we spend going nowhere writing stuff in this thread to riding ... a bike with or without?

I think I'll follow the evidence. Toodaloo!

 

[Mr Carr]

I'm old enough to remember the argument about whether to wear seatbelts in cars or not.

The facts are that overall, seatbelts reduce injuries and save lives. Nobody argues about that now.

Cyclists should have the sames attitude to helmets Overall they reduce injuries and save lives.

 

[Linford]

No you haven't. Nothing you, or indeed anyone else, have written explains why anyone should wear a helmet for cycling but not for travelling in a car.

You have consistently demonstrated a lack of willingness to consider any other POV than your own...why am I not surprised that you choose to ignore anything which doesn't fit with your world view ?

 

[mcshroom]

You have consistently demonstrated a lack of willingness to consider any other POV than your own...why am I not surprised that you choose to ignore anything which doesn't fit with your world view ?

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

This didn't start out as the usual 'should people wear helmets or not' debate though. It was based on an interesting article about why people feel the need to have those debates.

Of course, as usual, the debate got derailed, and the derailleur managed yet again to post a photo of a person on a motorbike.

A dérailleur on a motorbike!

 

[StuartG]

This didn't start out as the usual 'should people wear helmets or not' debate though. It was based on an interesting article about why people feel the need to have those debates.
Of course, as usual, the debate got derailed, and the derailleur managed yet again to post a photo of a person on a motorbike.

The point being that with his prolific posting in this thread he shows no care for his own life or that of others.

I hope he doesn't drive ... and I'm guessing you are not gagging for a photo of me on my GS500?

 

[snorri]

Cyclists should have the sames attitude to helmets Overall they reduce injuries and save lives.

By how much? has new information come to light?
We need the stats please.