BBC helmet cam film to explore cyclist-motorist conflict

[mickle]

IMHO you did more harm to cycling & cyclists than you can possibly imagine.

Tripe. Utter utter tripe.

 

[BSRU]

I feel like the elephant in the room here that nobody is acknowledging is that for the section used, Gaz was WRONG.

Are you sure it is an elephant?
The cab driving was wrong and dangerous, what happened after can be said to wrong for both parties or one party depending on your point of view.

 

[fossyant]

Don't forget, this was one incident from Gaz's many videos. Certainly not the best, but it shows how folk can over react to a situation, and the taxi driver was bang out of order for forcing Gaz to stop like that. Yes the incident could be avoided by a quick tap of the brakes, and no slap, but that happened, a mistake. You do have to check out the other stuff Gaz posts on-line to show this was just one bad incident, warts and all.

The editing made Gaz not appear in a good light, but that is unfortunately what you sign up for in a TV programme. Everyday non-incidents don't make a TV programme.

Brave of you to do it Gaz.

I can see this debate running in our family with my BIL, he's never ridden a bike properly (Golfer ) - i.e on the road !

 

[Andrew_P]

I feel like the elephant in the room here that nobody is acknowledging is that for the section used, Gaz was WRONG.

For that whole interaction he's looking so bad. He could have yielded some space for the cab, left room, nothing happens. He could have just not hit the cab, crisis averted. He could have apologised with his first words, didn't happen. He could have declined to clap and 'play up for the crowd' (what crowd? he wasn't on stage). Calling someone a mug after you've established that somebody isn't the type to smack you in the face isn't big or clever.

It's these kind of interactions that make cyclists look bad. I've watched the show again online and it's just not cool. Putting these kind of things on YouTube and trying to claim the moral high ground is insane.

I hope that Gaz takes a few lessons from this. It must truly be horrible to see yourself on national tv and have a populace comment negatively about you. (Though annoying Daily Mail readers is everyones idea of fun) We can claim that it all came down to an edit, but there should be enough in there for him to think 'I need to change a few things'.

I've made enough comments showing how I feel about 99% of 'Camera Cyclists' but to have any degree of success, they've got to realise their mistakes. In every way Gaz may claim it was a poor edit, they made that program to entertain a set demographic. Just as Gaz and his cohorts upload videos to entertain a very narrow demographic on YouTube. It's the same game so stop complaining.

Strange how you can have so many people with varying degrees of view, and different recollections of events of exactly the same programme! Did you not take in the part where Gaz did acknowledge that his own behaviour was far from perfect in that incident? I didn't see the same from the Cabbie, in fact I felt had he not been in his work vehicle, or had a cabbie licence to protect he would have decked Gaz. The Cab driver knew full well he had the measure of Gaz, and continued the bullying he did inside the cab on the outside of it.

 

[Bassjunkieuk]

The Cycling Lawyer does a good write up here, as he points out it's a shame that having tracked down Gaz's taxi driver they didn't ask him why he thinks it's acceptable to pass cyclists in the manner in which he deems OK. The excuse that Gaz could have moved sideways isn't really valid as HE is the one overtaking and wanting to change lanes, he shouldn't then use his vehicle to bully other road users. What was stopping him completing the move properly and waiting for Gaz to carry on ahead and follow behind him? It's the same MGIF mentality that results in so many close call left hooks, injuries and even deaths.

 

[mickle]

I feel like the elephant in the room here that nobody is acknowledging is that for the section used, Gaz was WRONG.

For that whole interaction he's looking so bad. He could have yielded some space for the cab, left room, nothing happens. He could have just not hit the cab, crisis averted. He could have apologised with his first words, didn't happen. He could have declined to clap and 'play up for the crowd' (what crowd? he wasn't on stage). Calling someone a mug after you've established that somebody isn't the type to smack you in the face isn't big or clever.

It's these kind of interactions that make cyclists look bad. I've watched the show again online and it's just not cool. Putting these kind of things on YouTube and trying to claim the moral high ground is insane.

I hope that Gaz takes a few lessons from this. It must truly be horrible to see yourself on national tv and have a populace comment negatively about you. (Though annoying Daily Mail readers is everyones idea of fun) We can claim that it all came down to an edit, but there should be enough in there for him to think 'I need to change a few things'.

I've made enough comments showing how I feel about 99% of 'Camera Cyclists' but to have any degree of success, they've got to realise their mistakes. In every way Gaz may claim it was a poor edit, they made that program to entertain a set demographic. Just as Gaz and his cohorts upload videos to entertain a very narrow demographic on YouTube. It's the same game so stop complaining.

Yeilding space to a bullying driver - we might as well curl up and die. This post highlights the very thing that's wrong with our roads - that those with the largest lump of metal rule the roads whilst every body else cowers into the gutter for fear of mortal injury. Might is not right. The taxi driver didn't leave enough space for any of the cyclists we saw him pass, he starts to drift into the LH lane before he's cleared Gaz's front wheel - with the expectation that Gaz will simply back off. It's bullying, aggressive and intimidating behaviour. And that's before he tries to slam Gaz to the kerb so that he can jump out and get up in his face. And then you slate the cyclist for daring to complain.

Let's get real. Hitting a lump of steel with a lump of flesh rarely hurts the lump of steel - and when someone is encroaching on your space it's sometimes the only option. And a perfectly valid protest. Quite happy to use it as a battering ram to barge their way through traffic, protected from criticism in their own little minds by the invisiblity cloak of 'I've been driving a cab for twenty years and not killed a cyclist yet - so...' but then react like someone's just punched your granny when someone 'dares to' touch your car.

Make cyclists look bad? My arse. No-one ever says that about drivers do they? Which suggests to me that, bizarely - even though you are a cyclist - you're looking at cyclists as an out group, accepted driving as the norm. And apply standards of behaviour from cyclsts which you don't seem to expect from drivers.

You're on the wrong bus Scruffmonster.

 

[4F]

So it wasnt you who chased after the black guy ?
IMHO you did more harm to cycling & cyclists than you can possibly imagine.

I can only assume we watched a different programme. When I watched it I noted that the taxi tried to pull in before he had fully overtaken hence the slap on the taxi.

Not once did the taxi driver understand that if the cyclist was able to slap the taxi then the taxi was clearly too close.

The rest of the conversation was a bit handbags by both parties

 

[BentMikey]

So it wasnt you who chased after the black guy ?
IMHO you did more harm to cycling & cyclists than you can possibly imagine.

I'm a bit confused actually. I don't recall Gaz, nor anyone else on that programme chasing down a black guy? The only think I can think of was Traffic Droid chasing the (white) red light jumper and grabbing his backpack.

 

[BentMikey]

Yeilding space to a bullying driver - we might as well curl up and die. This post highlights the very thing that's wrong with our roads - that those with the largest lump of metal rule the roads whilst every body else cowers into the gutter for fear of mortal injury. Might is not right. The taxi driver didn't leave enough space for any of the cyclists we saw him pass, he starts to drift into the LH lane before he's cleared Gaz's front wheel - with the expectation that Gaz will simply back off. It's bullying, aggressive and intimidating behaviour. And that's before he tries to slam Gaz to the kerb so that he can jump out and get up in his face. And then you slate the cyclist for daring to complain.

Let's get real. Hitting a lump of steel with a lump of flesh rarely hurts the lump of steel - and when someone is encroaching on your space it's sometimes the only option. And a perfectly valid protest. Quite happy to use it as a battering ram to barge their way through traffic, protected from criticism in their own little minds by the invisiblity cloak of 'I've been driving a cab for twenty years and not killed a cyclist yet - so...' but then react like someone's just punched your granny when someone 'dares to' touch your car.

Make cyclists look bad? My arse. No-one ever says that about drivers do they? Which suggests to me that, bizarely - even though you are a cyclist - you're looking at cyclists as an out group, accepted driving as the norm. And apply standards of behaviour from cyclsts which you don't seem to expect from drivers.

You're on the wrong bus Scruffmonster.

Well said, Mickle. It's Scruffmonster that's wrong, and the cabbie. Sure, Gaz could have done better, but HE DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WRONG.

 

[Mushroomgodmat]

I'm kinda disappointed that people seem to think that slapping a vhicle is only done to wind up the driver. On the two occations iv had to hit a car in that way it's done because I though If I didn't I might end up under under his wheels if I had not warned him.

Most of us don't have horns, and we can't shout louder than a car engine, it's seems a very good defensive measure if you ask me.

 

[HaloJ]

I'm kinda disappointed that people seem to think that slapping a vhicle is only done to wind up the driver. On the two occations iv had to hit a car in that way it's done because I though If I didn't I might end up under under his wheels if I had not warned him.

Most of us don't have horns, and we can't shout louder than a car engine, it's seems a very good defensive measure if you ask me.

We should have whistles apparently.

I'm not afraid to knock on a window but wow does it send drivers off into an absolute tizz when I've been forced to do it (twice now, same reaction.) Not sure how a whistle is going to be heard over the engine, blaring radio, screaming child or the person on the other end of a mobile phone.

 

[Dusty66]

I'm not a regular commuter, but I do ride my bike a couple of times a week in a large city, so I'm very aware of what cyclists have to face.

My overall feeling about the programme was that the cyclists came across as bad as the drivers. I think the way you drive a car is the same way that you will ride a bike, in that if you tend to be an aggressive driver or take risks, you will be the same when cycling. Personally speaking, when I drive, I tend to be the one that lets impatient drivers change lanes, over-take etc. I would even go as far as to say, that I watch for these types of drivers and give them room. I don't want to be in their way when they push it too far one day and end up in an accident.

We all know that as a cyclist you have to be even more aware, because we are difficult to see - even motorcyclists are harder to see than other traffic. With this in mind, I would never speed over a round-a-bout for example expecting to be seen. I expect NOT to be seen. In fact, this is how I tend to ride all the time - expecting not to be seen. When riding up the left side in traffic, I always stay back from larger vehicles as the dangers are well known. I'm no saint, but I do think that having your vunerability uppermost in your mind at all times is the way to go.

Even though it would be nice to have the same respect as other road users, the fact is that cyclists don't. You are a slow moving obstacle and an annoyance. If you were driving a tractor down a country lane and were a conscientious driver, you would pull in to let traffic pass. So as a conscientious cyclist, you shouldn't expect to ride in the centre of the road if you are considerably slower, and expect not to annoy other drivers.

The way I ride, is being aware that I am at the bottom of the food chain when it comes to other traffic. It's not particularly ego boosting but at least it seems to keep me out of trouble.

Another point on being conscientious, is that I would never dream of bombing along a path that is shared with pedestrains - that's just immature. Again - I'm no saint, but there is such a thing as common sense. I think age has something to do with it also - hence car insurance being so high for young drivers - taking too many risks and feeling invincible is not a good recipe for safe driving or safe cycling. I'm not saying everyone over 25 is better on the road, far from it. Some people never grow up.

 

[veloevol]

[QUOTE 2192122, member: 1314"]Saw the programmes last night and am afraid I agree with Ian Austin, Joint Chair of the Parliametary Cycling Group who described it as"stupid, sensationalist, simplistic, irresponsible nonsense" in that Daily Mail link. That's not down to the drivers or cyclists but the producers and editors. Real debates about road safety in the programme were a merefig leag and. the tales from the Roadpeace person and the cab driverwas, I'm afraid, cliched soap opera. Droid, I'm afraid, needs counselling or a good mate to talk to. I felt sorry for him.

The programme should never have been made.[/quote]

As I pointed out to someone previously expecting BBC1 to commission a serious program is like letting Robin Williams do your dental work.

Had it been on BBC4 we could have expected more. At least about our pitiful infrastructure.

 

[davefb]

We should have whistles apparently.

I'm not afraid to knock on a window but wow does it send drivers off into an absolute tizz when I've been forced to do it (twice now, same reaction.) Not sure how a whistle is going to be heard over the engine, blaring radio, screaming child or the person on the other end of a mobile phone.

maybe they'll hear the chokeing sound as you swallow the whistle and come to help , thus defusing the situation ?

seriously, whistles, thats mental.

 

[Boris Bajic]

Well said, Mickle. It's Scruffmonster that's wrong, and the cabbie. Sure, Gaz could have done better, but HE DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WRONG.

Quite. Not what I would have done and perhaps a little too antagonistic, but not wrong per se. I imagine this clip is from Gaz's earlier days with a helmet cam. The 'playing to the virtual audience' bit suggests it was. I too found him a little too pleased with himself in the TV show, but that is not representative.

I thought the Gaz clip chosen for the show was the worst they could have selected, which by the editors' parameters might mean it was the best...

But whilst I disagree with Scruffmonster on this, his point is not invalid. Many will agree wholeheartedly with him and some will see a kernel of truth in his view.

When a cyclist finds that the footage is detrimental to the lot of cyclists in the UK, that view is part of the data. We can all say that scruffmonster is wrong, but that doesn't invalidate his view or make it any less common.

Having come from the (cyclist and motorcycle courier) wing-slapping, shouty, squeaky-Scottish-yellathon side of cycling, I find that I've calmed down in the past 25 years.

I can well understand how very many cyclists might cringe at gaz's performance during his televised incident. I do not cringe, but those who do are not wrong and their view is not invalid just because we disagree with them.

I hate to say it, but we might be in the minority.