what parts of the deposit did you retain........???
Bastard Landlords Part II
- Thread starter theclaud
- Start date
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XmisterIS
Purveyor of fine nonsense
TC - I sympathise with you entirely. I rented in the private sector from my second year in Uni until I was 26, when I bought my house.
During that time, I had only two decent landlords who actually fulfilled their obligations while respecting my privacy as a tenant and were fair to me too. It's interesting that prior to renting in the private sector, my experience of renting in the University's on-campus accommodation was the the best I've had of being a tennant! The attitude was very much "we'll make sure your accommodation is comfortable and well maintained, but if you wreck it we will kick you out". Which is fair enough!
I think the problem is that many landlords don't see what they do as being a business. And I'm afraid that it is a business and must be treated as such. When you look at it like that, they it becomes much easier to divorce yourself from personal attachment to the property and consequently put down good boundaries.
For example, I am deciding whether or not to buy house number 2 and rent out house number 1 (this one). My parents were landlords and so I know very well how it should all be done. I am a firm believer in making a fair contract and sticking to it. If the tenant (customer) phones me up and tells me that the boiler's knackered, then every hour that it isn't fixed creates customer dissatisfaction. So what if I have to shell out a couple of grand to get the thing fixed? Or call on the insurance? The main thing is that if it is fixed ASAP (i.e. there and then, that day, so that the client has hot water and heating), then the customer is more likely to treat my property with as much respect and care as I give him/her. Likewise, if he/she is a tenant from hell, withholds rent, doesn't treat my place with respect, then I get rid of him/her pronto.
Getting good tenants is easy - Charge a good rent, No DSS, no pets, no smoking in the house, I pay for a cleaner to come once a week, two references, proof of income, 2 months deposit up front. Any quibbles at that stage? Let me know when you can provide me with those things, until then, no tenancy agreement for you. When it's all sorted, let the place on a six month assured shorthold agreement with contract. That's how my parents did it and we hardly had any problems at all, plus the tenants were happy.
During that time, I had only two decent landlords who actually fulfilled their obligations while respecting my privacy as a tenant and were fair to me too. It's interesting that prior to renting in the private sector, my experience of renting in the University's on-campus accommodation was the the best I've had of being a tennant! The attitude was very much "we'll make sure your accommodation is comfortable and well maintained, but if you wreck it we will kick you out". Which is fair enough!
I think the problem is that many landlords don't see what they do as being a business. And I'm afraid that it is a business and must be treated as such. When you look at it like that, they it becomes much easier to divorce yourself from personal attachment to the property and consequently put down good boundaries.
For example, I am deciding whether or not to buy house number 2 and rent out house number 1 (this one). My parents were landlords and so I know very well how it should all be done. I am a firm believer in making a fair contract and sticking to it. If the tenant (customer) phones me up and tells me that the boiler's knackered, then every hour that it isn't fixed creates customer dissatisfaction. So what if I have to shell out a couple of grand to get the thing fixed? Or call on the insurance? The main thing is that if it is fixed ASAP (i.e. there and then, that day, so that the client has hot water and heating), then the customer is more likely to treat my property with as much respect and care as I give him/her. Likewise, if he/she is a tenant from hell, withholds rent, doesn't treat my place with respect, then I get rid of him/her pronto.
Getting good tenants is easy - Charge a good rent, No DSS, no pets, no smoking in the house, I pay for a cleaner to come once a week, two references, proof of income, 2 months deposit up front. Any quibbles at that stage? Let me know when you can provide me with those things, until then, no tenancy agreement for you. When it's all sorted, let the place on a six month assured shorthold agreement with contract. That's how my parents did it and we hardly had any problems at all, plus the tenants were happy.
Have a guess! Let's just say I do not like the cut of his jib, and once I have got the immediate problem sorted I might have to give him reason to regret taking that tone with me.
In that case all of it, as the next load of 'gentlemen callers' turned up in blue uniforms.
The girls were bailed and then did a runner, abandoning a hire car after a minor hit and run in a service station in the Midlands.
I then had every utility company, banks, reproman under the sun (as well as the men in blue) trying to find out where they had gone.
I also had to dump not only all their furniture but also most of their personal possessions.
It turned out all names and references were cloned.
Flying Dodo
It'll soon be summer
Riverman
Guru
- Location
- sur de Inglaterra
I have rented in the private sector for the last 10 years and all I can say is that it's an absolute minefield. I have lived in about 14 properties. On this experience I would say that security of tenure is the most difficult issue with renting privately, ASTs should be replaced with something more secure, they hand most of the rights to the landlord, it is simply too easy to evict people under them.
Secondly, something needs to be done about all this "No DSS" business. Twice in my life I've had to move house whilst claiming Jobseekers Allowance and would have become homeless if it were not for the generosity of family members being willing to act as guarantors. It is not in the interest of society for people to become homeless when suitable properties are available, only because the landlords discriminate against people claiming benefits. Infact I think the landlords have an obligation to sort this situation out as do the state as they have more sway with the government than the tenants.
One positive thing I would say about private landlords is that I'd rather deal with a private landlord than a letting agency, it's a far easier, cheaper and trouble free process.
Also I think as a society, landlords need to move away from having the mentality of treating their property like some sort of pension income to retire with. Being a landlord is supposed to be a job, not some sort of trouble free sweetener when retirement comes. The emphasis should always be put on providing a home for someone not obtaining an extra income.
Edit to add: I'm an outstanding tenant
that has never missed a rent payment in those 10 years. :-)
Secondly, something needs to be done about all this "No DSS" business. Twice in my life I've had to move house whilst claiming Jobseekers Allowance and would have become homeless if it were not for the generosity of family members being willing to act as guarantors. It is not in the interest of society for people to become homeless when suitable properties are available, only because the landlords discriminate against people claiming benefits. Infact I think the landlords have an obligation to sort this situation out as do the state as they have more sway with the government than the tenants.
One positive thing I would say about private landlords is that I'd rather deal with a private landlord than a letting agency, it's a far easier, cheaper and trouble free process.
Also I think as a society, landlords need to move away from having the mentality of treating their property like some sort of pension income to retire with. Being a landlord is supposed to be a job, not some sort of trouble free sweetener when retirement comes. The emphasis should always be put on providing a home for someone not obtaining an extra income.
Edit to add: I'm an outstanding tenant
that has never missed a rent payment in those 10 years. :-)
stowie
Legendary Member
This sounds as if he might end up spending the rest of his days locked in the attic...
Newcyclist
New Member
Wobblers
Euthermic
- Location
- Minkowski Space
Sorry to hear about this, TC. Your landlord sounds like a complete arse. If the washing machine came with the house, I'd expect it to be the responsibility of the landlord to maintain - even if there isn't a inventory. And if he didn't want you using it, that should have been stipulated in the contract. Tough for him, he should sort it out. It might be worth going to the Citizens Advice for some, err, advice.
I've had good and bad experiences renting. The worst was an agent - bunch of lying weaslly bastards! Turned out the short assured tenancy agreement we had signed was anything but assured... The best seems to be with landlords who are local: they tend to be far more responsive about problems when they're just round the corner and I suppose it helps their morale (shall we say) that they can keep an eye on things. It also helps to keep things civilised when you bump into them in the pub...
All the power is in the landlord - it's a very different proposition to losing some money as to becoming homeless (and if any of you landlords care to object to that might I suggest that you start planning on just how to move to a new home with four weeks notice?).
2 months deposit? **** off. Seriously. That's a recipe to get ripped off. It's the spoor of the dodgy landlord - and any sensible tenant (the one's you're trying to attract!) will be going elsewhere. Especially if you're going to be insisting on a six month contract. Of course, if you're going to supply references as to your good conduct with former tenants, proof of payment on the property's mortgage, and legal guarantees over its continued payment (after all, I wouldn't want to be made homeless because you couldn't pay the mortgage), then maybe we could talk... And if you don't like that... well, the fact that you can insist that those be the hoops your prospective tenants have to jump through - at their own expense - illustrates neatly just how one sided tenancy in this country is.
I've had good and bad experiences renting. The worst was an agent - bunch of lying weaslly bastards! Turned out the short assured tenancy agreement we had signed was anything but assured... The best seems to be with landlords who are local: they tend to be far more responsive about problems when they're just round the corner and I suppose it helps their morale (shall we say) that they can keep an eye on things. It also helps to keep things civilised when you bump into them in the pub...
All the power is in the landlord - it's a very different proposition to losing some money as to becoming homeless (and if any of you landlords care to object to that might I suggest that you start planning on just how to move to a new home with four weeks notice?).
2 months deposit? **** off. Seriously. That's a recipe to get ripped off. It's the spoor of the dodgy landlord - and any sensible tenant (the one's you're trying to attract!) will be going elsewhere. Especially if you're going to be insisting on a six month contract. Of course, if you're going to supply references as to your good conduct with former tenants, proof of payment on the property's mortgage, and legal guarantees over its continued payment (after all, I wouldn't want to be made homeless because you couldn't pay the mortgage), then maybe we could talk... And if you don't like that... well, the fact that you can insist that those be the hoops your prospective tenants have to jump through - at their own expense - illustrates neatly just how one sided tenancy in this country is.
From a landlords point of view 'only' two months rent as a deposit is not enough.
As has been stated before you are loaning someone a bit of kit worth quarter of a million quid, on the basis of their good word and a couple of grand up front.
There is a reason why extra guarantors are required. and one needs to ensure that if a payment is missed, the landlord is not out of pocket.
There is currently talk in the EU about standarising the deposit taken across Europe to be the normal average. Given that 3 to 6 months is normal elsewhere I'd guess they will go for 3 months rent as a deposit.
As has been stated before you are loaning someone a bit of kit worth quarter of a million quid, on the basis of their good word and a couple of grand up front.
There is a reason why extra guarantors are required. and one needs to ensure that if a payment is missed, the landlord is not out of pocket.
There is currently talk in the EU about standarising the deposit taken across Europe to be the normal average. Given that 3 to 6 months is normal elsewhere I'd guess they will go for 3 months rent as a deposit.
I have rented in the private sector for the last 10 years and all I can say is that it's an absolute minefield. I have lived in about 14 properties. On this experience I would say that security of tenure is the most difficult issue with renting privately, ASTs should be replaced with something more secure, they hand most of the rights to the landlord, it is simply too easy to evict people under them.
Secondly, something needs to be done about all this "No DSS" business. Twice in my life I've had to move house whilst claiming Jobseekers Allowance and would have become homeless if it were not for the generosity of family members being willing to act as guarantors. It is not in the interest of society for people to become homeless when suitable properties are available, only because the landlords discriminate against people claiming benefits. Infact I think the landlords have an obligation to sort this situation out as do the state as they have more sway with the government than the tenants.
One positive thing I would say about private landlords is that I'd rather deal with a private landlord than a letting agency, it's a far easier, cheaper and trouble free process.
Also I think as a society, landlords need to move away from having the mentality of treating their property like some sort of pension income to retire with. Being a landlord is supposed to be a job, not some sort of trouble free sweetener when retirement comes. The emphasis should always be put on providing a home for someone not obtaining an extra income.
Edit to add: I'm an outstanding tenant
A few issues
if you have lived in 14 properties over 10 years as a landlord I'd want to ask why.
It's exactly the same as if I was employing you for a job, if you have had 14 jobs over the last 10 years I would not be thinking of you as long term employee.
Evicting tenants is likewise a minefield, very difficult to do in practice and it's always ruinously expensive, its a last resort option, when you simply cut your losses before they get any worse. In 32 years I've done twice.
The 'No DSS' rule is very simple. If the government/local councils paid up, directly to the landlord, on time and the right amount, then hundreds of thousands of additional properties would be available. They don't, they never have and probably never will. Most Landlords try DSS tenants once and then promise never again. Hence the reason most Agents wont even let them in the door, as they have no property to let to them.
Local councils are now trying to offer landlords fixed five year tenancies at above market rates to any landlord prepared to deal with them, however once bitten twice shy, so they can offer all they want but there are few takers
I only deal with agencies to do the finding and the vetting. I do not find or vet tenants directly
Also I think as a society, landlords need to move away from having the mentality of treating their property like some sort of pension income to retire with.
By and large the property is exactly that, it's my pension plan.
Being a landlord is supposed to be a job, not some sort of trouble free sweetener when retirement comes.
Being a landlord is a job and it's far from trouble free, but it will be a sweetener when retirement comes
The emphasis should always be put on providing a home for someone not obtaining an extra income.
That, possibly, maybe, is the job of a socialist based government or local council.
The job of a private sector landlord, a company, a bank etc is to provide income
Is a home a fundamental right in a civilised society ?
And if it is. Then who provides it, Who pays for it ?
MacB
Lover of things that come in 3's
- Location
- Farnborough, Hampshire
you don't have to buy, or keep, that bit of kit if you don't want to, whereas everyone needs somewhere to live.
I'd limit property to one title deed per person, therefore a couple could own two properties and let one out if they so wished. Beyond that wealth should be forced to seek a return, if it wants a return, in something that generates growth rather than something just living off the backs of others.
mangaman
Guest
I have to confess to having a place in Spain I rent out from time to time. (special rate for CCers - PM me
As a landlord, I have potentially huge liabilities - and I have insurance. It costs a few hundred a year and covers virtually unlimited liability (if someone slipped on my floor and broke their back and was in a wheelchair, I'd be liable for a small fortune)
If you don't insure yourself, your point is invalid.
The tenant is only liable for the day to day stuff.
I'd much rather have a tenant I trust than get all arsey about minor points.
If the washing mashine / microwave / boiler etc breaks - I try to sort it out asap as it clearly my responsibility.
Canrider
Guru
Strange that it works that way in the rest of the Anglosphere.
- In Australia, the deposit can be as little as two weeks' rent.
- In the USA and Canada, rent increases are capped by law.
My last (Canadian) flat was rented by myself and another student without any references whatsoever. The contract was for a calendar year (standard), with rent increase capped at 2% per annum. That was SOP, and before any landlord on here starts going 'No one in the UK would rent under those terms', well, it does seem to work for everyone else, ya chiselling so-and-sos.
You think you've got it tough as a landlord? The UK is pro-landlord, most other English-speaking countries are neutral or pro-tenant.
PBancroft
Senior Member
- Location
- Winchester
A friend of mine purchased a house as a long term investment in order to rent out. She invested a fair bit of money into it making sure it was a nice place to live in, and with the mortgage that put her into a fair bit of debt.
The very first people that moved in were very demanding but she did her best to help yet they trashed the place in a month and did a runner. Two months rent deposit didn't cover the costs, even after claiming for what she could on insurance. She put it down to experience, and after quite a lot of stress rented the place out again. The next people who moved in were lovely... except for the turd they left on the sofa when they left. She gave up at this point - it just wasn't worth the aggro - and sold the house. She didn't recoup her investment.
I'm actually tempted to invest in a property to rent out, but I'm scared of things like this happening. I know most tenants aren't like this, just as most landlords aren't of the type TC has had... but it only takes a couple to sour the whole deal and make everything a rotten and expensive experience for all.
The very first people that moved in were very demanding but she did her best to help yet they trashed the place in a month and did a runner. Two months rent deposit didn't cover the costs, even after claiming for what she could on insurance. She put it down to experience, and after quite a lot of stress rented the place out again. The next people who moved in were lovely... except for the turd they left on the sofa when they left. She gave up at this point - it just wasn't worth the aggro - and sold the house. She didn't recoup her investment.
I'm actually tempted to invest in a property to rent out, but I'm scared of things like this happening. I know most tenants aren't like this, just as most landlords aren't of the type TC has had... but it only takes a couple to sour the whole deal and make everything a rotten and expensive experience for all.
