At last a challenge to Big Pat

[resal]

Very depressing and exactly what anyone near the sport over the last 15 years since Festina would expect. That is why Cookson is not a viable replacement. Either he is a turnip and could not work out Pat or he sat there knowing what Pat and Hein were doing and did nothing. An honourable man would have walked away and fought them from the outside.

Cookson did nothing about the allegations in LA Confidential. And sadly, exactly as you described about Berties test result, the issues regarding Sky employing Yates, Barry de ?Jong Sutton and Leinders have the same smell of effluent and as for Rob Hayles and his Health rest when over the 50% limit, that is even more laughable. Cookson has legitimized rather than investigated these things.

It all makes for very uncomfortable reading.

 

[Flying_Monkey]

McQuaid has responded by sending a letter to all the heads of the national federations denouncing the dossier, and alleging threats, bribery and corruption attempts against his campaign... it's all gone a bit OTT now.

 

[Kiwiavenger]

Maybe its time for the uci to be disbanded and a new governing body to be formed?

Along with all the corruption, The whole current voting system is just a shambles as well

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

Maybe its time for the uci to be disbanded and a new governing body to be formed?

Along with all the corruption, The whole current voting system is just a shambles as well

I dread to think of the outcome should McQuaid get through with the backing of African and Asian Federations. A discredited man running a discredited organisation.

Anyhow, what's the difference between an attractive air stewardess and Pat McQuaid? One's a flying looker, the other's a....

 

[oldroadman]

Very depressing and exactly what anyone near the sport over the last 15 years since Festina would expect. That is why Cookson is not a viable replacement. Either he is a turnip and could not work out Pat or he sat there knowing what Pat and Hein were doing and did nothing. An honourable man would have walked away and fought them from the outside.

Cookson did nothing about the allegations in LA Confidential. And sadly, exactly as you described about Berties test result, the issues regarding Sky employing Yates, Barry de ?Jong Sutton and Leinders have the same smell of effluent and as for Rob Hayles and his Health rest when over the 50% limit, that is even more laughable. Cookson has legitimized rather than investigated these things.

It all makes for very uncomfortable reading.

The way organisations get fixed is from the inside. Better inside biding your time, than shouting at closed doors. As anyone who thinks it through would realise.
The position is what it is, almost any alternative to the current regime in Aigle would be better, and I would trust Cookson to change things in his own quiet way. I've met him and think he deserves the job to have a chance at cleaning things up. Wonder if there are new shredders at Aigle? They might have worn out the old ones!
Some of the other matters metioned show some lack of factual basis. There are people who are naturally above 50%, whether cynics care to reaise that or not. As the years have gone by my own count has dropped to 47%, something considerably above average, my own doc (a sport specialist) says, and his view is that earlier the 50% level could have been tripped over naturally after a session of heavy work follwed by a recovery period. Does that make me a doper? If it's natural you have a TUE, as I suspect most people at a decent level would know.

 

[resal]

The way organisations get fixed is from the inside. Better inside biding your time, than shouting at closed doors. As anyone who thinks it through would realise.
The position is what it is, almost any alternative to the current regime in Aigle would be better, and I would trust Cookson to change things in his own quiet way. I've met him and think he deserves the job to have a chance at cleaning things up. Wonder if there are new shredders at Aigle? They might have worn out the old ones!
Some of the other matters metioned show some lack of factual basis. There are people who are naturally above 50%, whether cynics care to reaise that or not. As the years have gone by my own count has dropped to 47%, something considerably above average, my own doc (a sport specialist) says, and his view is that earlier the 50% level could have been tripped over naturally after a session of heavy work follwed by a recovery period. Does that make me a doper? If it's natural you have a TUE, as I suspect most people at a decent level would know.

Point 1. Sometimes things don't get fixed best from inside, they are unfixable. The FA had been running the show for 100 years were fat, lazy & incompetent. The premiership broke away and the commercial entertainment business which football is, has gone to another level.

Are you trying to tell us that the last 14 years has all been a cunning plan by Cookson to get his feet under the table ! Come off it. 2004 was the time to act. All the evidence was there, written nice and neatly. He did nothing. The guy is a cynical opportunist.

In the case of the UCI it is endemic corruption and an inability to get into the 20th century in terms of its attitude to women, that make it fit for recycling. A new organisation would get more done far faster than anyone sitting at the table and telling us he will get round to it sometime in the future. Just look at the statements from the pair of them.

Point 2 Well I have never had a report from the NHS on my Haematocrit. I would love to know how you in you retirement, can track your heamatocrit and just who this NHS doctor is who can advise on the sports side of it. Of all the riders I have worked with, none were anywhere near 50%. I have had quite a lot to do with Sutton and from Sutton information about Hayles. I would not advise anyone I held in respect to have anything to do with Sutton.

 

[BJH]

Point 1. Sometimes things don't get fixed best from inside, they are unfixable. The FA had been running the show for 100 years were fat, lazy & incompetent. The premiership broke away and the commercial entertainment business which football is, has gone to another level.

Are you trying to tell us that the last 14 years has all been a cunning plan by Cookson to get his feet under the table ! Come off it. 2004 was the time to act. All the evidence was there, written nice and neatly. He did nothing. The guy is a cynical opportunist.

In the case of the UCI it is endemic corruption and an inability to get into the 20th century in terms of its attitude to women, that make it fit for recycling.

Point 2 Of all the riders I have worked with, none were anywhere near 50%. I have had quite a lot to do with Sutton and from Sutton information about Hayles. I would not advise anyone I held in respect to have anything to do with Sutton.

The Premier League has taken football to another level? Not really Sky could claim to have done that with pay per view and huge amounts of cash, football did not need to set up the premier league to enable it, they did that because the clubs involved wanted to take a bigger share than the football league was giving them, it was only ever about money and that's why England are still crap.

Cookson would not have won an election against either of the last two crooks during that period, that doesn't make him an opportunist for challenging now.

The current UCI not doing enough for woman's cycling is not good reason to get rid of the body and start again, but it is certainly good reason to change the leadership to one which genuinely supports equality within the sport - Cookson deserves the chance to do it.

Sutton comments - well he was around as a rider during the doping era but I have never seen him linked so you will need to offer a bit more than that!

On the 50 per cent comments Tyler Hamilton suggested that there were riders who had naturally higher levels so it certainl not impossible whether you have never seen it or not. The point he made is that those with a naturally higher level we're actually the ones who lost out in the era of massive EPO cheating.

 

[Buddfox]

Point 2 Well I have never had a report from the NHS on my Haematocrit. I would love to know how you in you retirement, can track your heamatocrit and just who this NHS doctor is who can advise on the sports side of it.

Why would it need to be an NHS doctor?

 

[resal]

Why would it need to be an NHS doctor?

Think !

 

[resal]

The Premier League has taken football to another level? Not really .....

Read what I wrote.

Cookson would not have won an election against either of the last two crooks during that period, that doesn't make him an opportunist for challenging now.

The guy was quoted as fully backing Pat at the end of Jan after the Lance/Oprah show. OK according to you he is not an opportunist. Have it your way.

The current UCI not doing enough for woman's cycling is not good reason to get rid of the body and start again, but it is certainly good reason to change the leadership to one which genuinely supports equality within the sport - Cookson deserves the chance to do it.

Edit - Agree with you that this is not the reason to scrap the UCI. The reason to scrap the UCI is that it goes about its business in the same way it can't organise a fair election. A cheque turned up from Lance one day in the post for a substantial amount and nobody there knows what they did with it and reps like Cookson can't be bothered to ask "why ?" - He was on the oversight committee for team Sky. They have done naff all for women's cycling whilst he has been in charge. Before that they turned their noses up at a start for the women's Tour in the UK - twice. At the beginning of the year Cookson was saying now was not the time for a minimum wage for women and now he says things have changed. Absolutely nothing has changed apart from he is running for president. If that looks like the reformer you need to give another couple of decades to, he's your man.

Sutton comments - well he was around as a rider during the doping era but I have never seen him linked so you will need to offer a bit more than that!

I don't need to. I know.

On the 50 per cent comments Tyler Hamilton suggested that there were riders who had naturally higher levels so it certainl not impossible whether you have never seen it or not. The point he made is that those with a naturally higher level we're actually the ones who lost out in the era of massive EPO cheating.

Tyler suggested quite a lot. If you would like to believe him, I leave you happy in your faith. Many make statements like him. Think !

As to whether Cookson will make president, I am sure he will.

Will he be better than McQuaid, I am sure he will.

Will he do a number of good things - Yes.

Is he what the UCI need ? No, the UCI needs far more significant reform.

 

[Flying_Monkey]

I am not sure Cookson will win at all. There have just been two new ammendments proposed for the next UCI Management Committee meeting by Barbados and Turkey to the effect that the incumbent President should always be allowed to stand, of course applying immediately (effectively in retrospect). This is clearly Pat making sure he gets on the ballot despite the imminent failure of his Malaysian / Thai-backed nomination. If he gets on the the ballot you better believe that enough money and promises will be rapidly exchanged to make this far from a sure thing...

 

[thom]

Why would it need to be an NHS doctor?

Exactly - the only thing that matters is whether they abide by the haematocritic oath innit ?

 

[thom]

Cookson & McQuaid speak to the UEC:

 

[BJH]

Read what I wrote.


The guy was quoted as fully backing Pat at the end of Jan after the Lance/Oprah show. OK according to you he is not an opportunist. Have it your way.


Edit - Agree with you that this is not the reason to scrap the UCI. The reason to scrap the UCI is that it goes about its business in the same way it can't organise a fair election. A cheque turned up from Lance one day in the post for a substantial amount and nobody there knows what they did with it and reps like Cookson can't be bothered to ask "why ?" - He was on the oversight committee for team Sky. They have done naff all for women's cycling whilst he has been in charge. Before that they turned their noses up at a start for the women's Tour in the UK - twice. At the beginning of the year Cookson was saying now was not the time for a minimum wage for women and now he says things have changed. Absolutely nothing has changed apart from he is running for president. If that looks like the reformer you need to give another couple of decades to, he's your man.


I don't need to. I know.

Tyler suggested quite a lot. If you would like to believe him, I leave you happy in your faith. Many make statements like him. Think !

As to whether Cookson will make president, I am sure he will.

Will he be better than McQuaid, I am sure he will.

Will he do a number of good things - Yes.

Is he what the UCI need ? No, the UCI needs far more significant reform.

I assume you mean that your point was about the commercial entertainment business - I stand by comment that tv money made this happen and not the switch to it being the premier league. So it didn't need a new organisation.

I do get your point about Cookson being on the committee when the cash came in from Lance and during the years when woman's cycling has not been supported well enough. But how do you start again from scratch with a new organisation? If you follow that logic the you would also need to scrap every national federation because they put these representatives there in the first place. I just don't think that's possible, but I do believe the UCI can be changed for the better.

On the opportunist question, I can also see that sometimes you also need to be pragmatic. The political cess pool within the UCI would certainly have seen some backlash for Cookson and BC if he had chosen t go completely out on a limb, he may also have had to take the view of leadership of BC - difficult to know if we weren't there. All that said, I don't believe he will be perfect, but he will be far better than the guy in charge now.

Sutton ??? I saw him act like a git driving across red lights on his bike once so I know he's not perfect. But no reason to believe anything else of him, would others not have hinted who did leave because they couldn't answer the previous user question? But if you know more about him you have the rest of us a a disadvantage.

Not sure where your going on the Tyler point - as far as I am aware what he says about higher and lower levels in athletes is correct, so not really a case of whether I believe Him as that's the only reason I referred to him.

I agree on your final point that he UCI needs more significant reform. Your original point around scrapping it I don't get at all. It could if anything set the sport back.

 

[thom]

Massive problems in the women's Giro del Toscanna for the UCI to address: http://www.podiumcafe.com/2013/9/15/4733330/riders-refuse-to-race-giro-toscana-2013
The only race granted HC status is plagued by safety issues & the main teams drop out on the last day.