Armstrong charged and banned

[Alun]

I'm no expert (we always say that right before we give our opinions on something best left to the experts!) on the case or the laws surrounding the case but from what I remember when the case was closed, most of the evidence against him is via witness testimonials and a good lawyer (the like of which a rich man like Armstrong can afford) would be able to rip those testimonials to bits as the vast majority have publicly said bad things about Lance.

If this new tribunal can make a decision without Lance using his lawyers then that's hardly a fair hearing and if it's an open court, here come the lawyers.

I agree with much of what you say, but the USADA have lawyers as well, so in that respect it's a level playing field.

 

[festival]

He's still a better bike rider and athlete than you will ever be. Nothing like a few vicious slurs and slander to put your case.

I don't know LA from Adam but I am grown up enough to realise that there is an on going investigation and until a finding of guilt or wrong doing is delivered then the guy is innocent. I bet you would hope that if you were ever under investigation that the same would be afforded to you, innocent until found guilty. It really is a fundamental pillar of the developed world's legal systems unless you think he should be treated differently to any one else who is accused of something as he is 7 times TdF winner Lance Armstrong?

What do you think of Wiggo's recent run of success? Are you sufficiently bitter and cynical to point the finger at him?

And my bikes better than yours.
Grown up? Don't confuse fairness and rights with the actions of people who believe if you can deny,deny,deny and use power to manipulate the system to their own ends.
And by the way I have known Bradley since he was a kid down at Herne Hill, so I will ignore the pathetic comment.

 

[fozy tornip]

... so in that respect it's a level playing field.

As bike races should be.

 

[mickle]

As bike races should be.

Especially in grass tracking.

 

[slowmotion]

I don't know what people want their cycling heroes to be, or to look like, or how they wish them to behave.

Lance Armstrong hits none of my "hero" buttons.

[media]
]View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryH650Br8uI[/media]

Greg Lemond? My kind of a guy.

 

[raindog]

Reaction from Bassons and Simeoni,

Simeoni....
“can’t understand why suddenly now they’re investigating him, when for years he was allowed to do whatever he wanted.”

 

[yello]

from what I remember when the case was closed, most of the evidence against him is via witness testimonials

I think it fair to say that nobody outside of the federal investigators and the US Dept of Justice knew what the evidence consisted of.

 

[yello]

Christophe Bassons is an incredible character. Or at least comes across as one. David Millar mentions him in his autobiography so if you have it, reread the bits about Bassons!

What most strikes me about Bassons is how placid and reasoned he seems to be. He has a clarity of vision and the strength of character to do what he believes in.

 

[Herzog]

What most strikes me about Bassons is how placid and reasoned he seems to be. He has a clarity of vision and the strength of character to do what he believes in.

Unlike most pro cyclists he's reasonably educated and it shows. I think I'd be a little more upset if my career had been 'stolen' in the same way...

 

[albion]

It went like this in the media columns.
'he beat me , must be on doping'
and
'well I'm doping so he must do it better'

It must certainly wrankle that those using doping could still not beat Armstrong apart from an occasional inconsistent stage win. One's ego certainly told tell them that 'Armstrong cheats better than me'.

 

[smutchin]

It really is a fundamental pillar of the developed world's legal systems unless you think he should be treated differently to any one else who is accused of something as he is 7 times TdF winner Lance Armstrong?

As FM rightly pointed out at the start of this thread, this isn't a legal case and isn't subject to the same standards. As I understand it, the Feds closed the legal case precisely because they couldn't make the charges stick (or didn't want to try) but that doesn't stop UCI/ASO/WADA/USADA acting according to their own rules and procedures.

d.

 

[Alun]

As FM rightly pointed out at the start of this thread, this isn't a legal case and isn't subject to the same standards. As I understand it, the Feds closed the legal case precisely because they couldn't make the charges stick (or didn't want to try) but that doesn't stop UCI/ASO/WADA/USADA acting according to their own rules and procedures.

d.

It'll all end up in CAS, so best not to act in a maverick way like the BOA did over Millar.

 

[smutchin]

It'll all end up in CAS, so best not to act in a maverick way like the BOA did over Millar.

True, but I don't think it's entirely fair to cast the BOA as "mavericks" - whether you agree with it or not, their decision was one of principle. The problem there was jurisdiction - BOA aren't entitled to overrule the IOC's selection criteria. This case is slightly different because it's not one governing body exercising its jurisdiction over another (seems like WADA, USADA, UCI and ASO are all out to get Lance, one way or another).

Also, as noted above, Lance may well have expensive lawyers at his disposal but so does the USADA.

d.

 

[MacB]

Jeez, the guy's guilty, there's a mountain of cirumstantial evidence, tons of witness testimony and science that indicates he either doped or he was able to break the laws of physics.

That doesn't mean his achievements weren't staggering or that he wasn't the best rider of his time. The guy is the very epitomy of 'whatever it takes' dedication. At the time what it took was everything you'd expect plus dope, so that's what he did. Nothing that happens is really going to tarnish his reputation on the bike as the assumption will always be he was only beating other doped cyclists, so still a level playing field. Yeah I'm sure there were a few 'clean' cyclists that underachieved because of that, but they fall into the realms of ifs, buts and maybes, you can't go back and change things.

It's the damage he's done, and continues to do, off the bike that rankles. Whether you're a general cycling fan, a Lance fan or just have a casual interest, if he'd just fessed up and drawn a line I doubt his long term rep would have suffered too badly. Once things died down people would still remember his epic feats on a bike.

 

[gb155]

Lance is innocent you damn haters