Armstrong charged and banned

[Red Light]

Red Light can perfectly legitimately defend Armstrong but defaming Lemond in order to do so, is a step too far. There have never been any credible allegations against Lemond and it is generally accepted that one of the main reasons for his eventual retirement in 1994, along with what he felt at the time was illness, was the incredible change in form of many previously ordinary riders, in other words EPO.

Awww, come on, Lemond fanboy was so far up his own backside in his hatred of LA he deserved a bit of a tweaking

 

[MacB]

I'm impressed that there are still, otherwise apparently sane, people that believe that Lance didn't use performance enhancing drugs. In fact I see a multiple of business opportunities here....all to be offered under the parent corporation of Gullible Inc

 

[86TDFWinner]

Ah well, that's all settled then As this isn't the Greg Lemond thread, nobody should bringing up the subject!

No one said anything about bringing/not bringing it up...it's when they start saying blatant BS that everyone here knows isn't correct, that really incites a defense of Lemond. You want to talk about it, assume it, blah blah blah, no problems, BUT, be prepared to be called out on it when you say it, thats all. I've asked here(and other places) where is this so called "proof" from even 1 CREDIBLE: rider/former teammate/coach/etc/etc that Lemond doped? There isn't any & there won't be any.

Pharmstrong fans like to talk about "witch hunts" all the time, "Lemond doped too" is as big of a "witch hunt" as one could argue.

As of today: Lance: banned from cycling, dogged with years of doping allegations, and about to have ALL of his TDF wins vacated for just that.

Lemond: will become the ONLY american to win the most TDF's.........

 

[86TDFWinner]

Red Light can perfectly legitimately defend Armstrong but defaming Lemond in order to do so, is a step too far. There have never been any credible allegations against Lemond and it is generally accepted that one of the main reasons for his eventual retirement in 1994, along with what he felt at the time was illness, was the incredible change in form of many previously ordinary riders, in other words EPO.

Again, NEVER said he couldnt "defame" Lemond or anyone, but we ALL know : Greg never doped. Until there's one CREDIBLE source that claims he did, whats the point of mentioning that he did? Just b/c someone else does something, doesn't mean you or I do it. Red Light, please accept my apologies, I wasn't trying to be a dick to you. Please understand, thats a Lance fanboy reactionary retaliation tactic whenever their man is in hot water, they ALWAYS say "well Lemond doped too". Then I sometimes step in, ask to please post/verify said "proof" when he did "dope", and then that usually runs them off. It's as if it's a purely trollish move, just to get a rise out of folks, and take heat off Pharmstrong. It worked, congrats.

I could say that Hinault doped.....how do we know they haven't? (see what i mean, he's been retired for many years, and I've never read anything about him doping).

 

[86TDFWinner]

Don't tell PaulB and RichP that - personal insults are their forte if you dare to cross his "guilty as hell and damn the proof " stance.

Never "insulted" anyone...simply asked OP to provide said proof that Lemond doped, when and where?..and, not surprisingly, that "proof" has yet to show up.

I look @ it this way: Once Lance gets busted and they strip him of most/all of his TDF wins, that immediately means Lemond becomes the ONLY american who's won the most TDF's ever.....I can live with that.

 

[Noodley]

I''m with 1986TDF on this one, Lemond is 100% above suspicion.
And as usual his name is dragged into the mire by Armstrong apologists.

I gave up reading Red Light and Cunobelin's contributions to Racing weeks ago - if I read a thread about the lace industry in 19th century France I would learn more about pro bike racing than from reading their posts.

 

[rich p]

Yeah, we get it Greg.
Can we accept that Lemond is for another thread and keep this one mainly to the nailing of Armstrong?

 

[rich p]

Don't tell PaulB and RichP that - personal insults are their forte if you dare to cross his "guilty as hell and damn the proof " stance.

Me, insulting?

 

[Noodley]

Me, insulting?

French lace in the 19th century...

 

[rich p]

Don't tell PaulB and RichP that - personal insults are their forte if you dare to cross his "guilty as hell and damn the proof " stance.

As a matter of fact, I want the case to be aired publicly and independently judged and have never said anything else. What I don't want is the case to be smothered by lawyers and obfuscation by Armstrong and his cohort of professional PR smokesmen.
It's you, Cunobellin, who appears to want the arbitration to be stifled by nitpicking the minutiae of the process. Not that it matters one iota what you and I think anyway although it appears that you and Red Light are under the illusion that you and the 'haterz' actually have some influence.
I challenge you to find any of the posters here who believe LA to be guilty, who don't want to see him nailed fairly, legally and squarely. We don't want him to wriggle out on a technicality.

 

[ufkacbln]

As a matter of fact, I want the case to be aired publicly and independently judged and have never said anything else. What I don't want is the case to be smothered by lawyers and obfuscation by Armstrong and his cohort of professional PR smokesmen.
It's you, Cunobellin, who appears to want the arbitration to be stifled by nitpicking the minutiae of the process. Not that it matters one iota what you and I think anyway although it appears that you and Red Light are under the illusion that you and the 'haterz' actually have some influence.
I challenge you to find any of the posters here who believe LA to be guilty, who don't want to see him nailed fairly, legally and squarely. We don't want him to wriggle out on a technicality.

Absolutely, totally and incredibly wrong assumption!

Pointing out that these are issues is unwelcome in some quarters, but that does not stop Armstrong and his team using them, or make them any less valid.... if you wish to interpret that as "wanting" the arbitration to be stifled then that is your problem,

The fact that you chose to compound your initial error by using insults rather than to discuss these validated points speaks more of your closed mind than anything I could post.

 

[Red Light]

No one said anything about bringing/not bringing it up...it's when they start saying blatant BS that everyone here knows isn't correct, that really incites a defense of Lemond. You want to talk about it, assume it, blah blah blah, no problems, BUT, be prepared to be called out on it when you say it, thats all. I've asked here(and other places) where is this so called "proof" from even 1 CREDIBLE: rider/former teammate/coach/etc/etc that Lemond doped? There isn't any & there won't be.

As I said, it has been suggested that anyone with a VO2max over 90 should automatically be considered to be cheating. Lemonds was 93. Lemond questioned Contador's performance on Stage 18 of the 2009 TdeF As having an inhuman VO2max yet estimates are it was only around 80.

http://www.newscientist.com/article...formance-could-betray-sports-drug-cheats.html

 

[86TDFWinner]

As I said, it has been suggested that anyone with a VO2max over 90 should automatically be considered to be cheating. Lemonds was 93. Lemond questioned Contador's performance on Stage 18 of the 2009 TdeF As having an inhuman VO2max yet estimates are it was only around 80.

http://www.newscientist.com/article...formance-could-betray-sports-drug-cheats.html

I saw that too, but that doesnt mean everyone doped. I believe that was the year(89) that Lemond.was coming back from his hunting accident. If his numbers were off.the.charts like folks have suggested, IMO, he wouldve beaten Fignon by more.than 8 seconds, hed.have lapped the field, again my opinion. Besides the ONLY reason Lemonds.name.has ever been mentioned as possibly doping is from who? Pharmstrong & thats bc he was trying to bash Lemond for questioning him. If Greg.doesnt question it, we dont hear his name being mentioned.

 

[rich p]

Absolutely, totally and incredibly wrong assumption!

Pointing out that these are issues is unwelcome in some quarters, but that does not stop Armstrong and his team using them, or make them any less valid.... if you wish to interpret that as "wanting" the arbitration to be stifled then that is your problem,

The fact that you chose to compound your initial error by using insults rather than to discuss these validated points speaks more of your closed mind than anything I could post.

FWIW, where did I insult you? Seriously, I can't remember ever doing so unless you count my genuine and sincere offer to vet your posts prior to posting in order to save you from further embarrassment. I hope you're not going to throw that act of selfless goodwill in my face.

 

[Red Light]

I saw that too, but that doesnt mean everyone doped. I believe that was the year(89) that Lemond.was coming back from his hunting accident. If his numbers were off.the.charts like folks have suggested, IMO, he wouldve beaten Fignon by more.than 8 seconds, hed.have lapped the field, again my opinion.

No it doesn't but the current trend of performance analysis and bio passports to detect doping rather than blood testing is an interesting development for people like Lemond who, in my mind, takes an unhealthy interest in other people doping. It would be interesting to analyse with current technology Lemond's performances and see how he comes out. In fact I might have a word with someone about doing just that.

And it wasn't about winning by 8 seconds on that final stage but coming from 50s behind and winning by 8 seconds in a race that drove Fignon, who was no mean rider, to his absolute limit and beyond. Yet Lemond still did the stage 58s quicker than him.

I am not saying Lemond doped but you need to look to yourself also throwing around accusations too against someone who has yet to be shown to have doped and then throwing a fit when someone even dares to suggest that your hero might have partaken of the substances almost everyone in the peleton took in those days (according to Fignon)