Are we too judgmental as cyclists.

[Electric_Andy]

Where does it say that?

I don't have access to the actual law, but I've heard many Police on TV and such stating that it's an offence if your engine is switched on. Unless they're making that bit up

The law still applies to you if you’re:

• stopped at traffic lights
• queuing in traffic
• supervising a learner driver

When you can use a hand-held phone
You can use a hand-held phone if either of these apply:

• you’re safely parked
• you need to call 999 or 112 in an emergency and it’s unsafe or impractical to stop

 

[Deleted member 26715]

you’re safely parked

So we have 2 conflicting definitions, anybody else got anymore?

 

[Cavalol]

Probably an age thing, to be honest. Wonder if I'm the only two faced one who complains about bad/stupid motoring (and cycling) habits that 30 years ago I was doing myself.

 

[winjim]

So we have 2 conflicting definitions, anybody else got anymore?

One point I took from the CPS link is that it allows some discretion based on circumstances. So for example in the case of the doored cyclist, even though the car was stationary with the engine off, there had to be a 'driver' to take responsibility. I think if you were using a phone in that situation you would say the car was not being 'driven'. But queuing in traffic I think would definitely be interpreted as 'driving'.

 

[Deleted member 26715]

I think if you were using a phone in that situation you would say the car was not being 'driven'. But queuing in traffic I think would definitely be interpreted as 'driving'.

I totally agree but that is not read from the link you posted says, it gives the impression that if you were driving alone, a call came in & you pulled over to the side of the road, took the vehicle out of gear, put on the handbrake & switched off the engine, you were still 'driving' & therefore open to prosecution.

 

[Deleted member 1258]

Probably an age thing, to be honest. Wonder if I'm the only two faced one who complains about bad/stupid motoring (and cycling) habits that 30 years ago I was doing myself.

I doubt you're the only one, we live and learn.

 

[winjim]

I totally agree but that is not read from the link you posted says, it gives the impression that if you were driving alone, a call came in & you pulled over to the side of the road, took the vehicle out of gear, put on the handbrake & switched off the engine, you were still 'driving' & therefore open to prosecution.

That's not how I read it. I would say that this bit gives what would be the general definition of driving.

Under existing case law, a person may be regarded as driving whilst the engine is running and the vehicle is stationary. This means that an individual stopped at a traffic light could be prosecuted for a mobile phone offence.

​

While this bit, including use of the word 'may', is only there to point out that there has been, in very specific circumstances, a case where the above definition was inadequate.

A person may be regarded as driving a stationary vehicle, even when the engine is not running.
​

I think that as it's using case law to interpret legislation, the first definition, in conjunction with the advice from the HC, ie 'safely parked', means that you would have to have parked somewhere or be doing something spectacularly and impossibly reckless for the second definition to come into play. Maybe door a cyclist while parked in a cycle lane and talking on your phone?

 

[Shearwater Missile]

I have seen plenty of people driving talking to their passenger and actually keeping their head turned towards them, why ? It happened yet again whilst on the A1 in slow moving traffic, actually stop start. Each time he stopped his car it was only inches away from mine. I have also seen drivers behind constantly looking down at their phone and then up again in time to brake. Equally it is both dangerous etiquette. A couple of years ago I went on a speed awareness course ( doing 35 in a 30 limit) and I was appalled by the attitude of some on the course, they seemed to think that it was a waste of time. Personally I got a lot out of it and it made you question everything you do whilst driving. Because there is that much more traffic on the road we all need to ride or drive accordingly. I am not perfect but I like to think that I consider other road users.

 

[Globalti]

I also went on a speed awareness course and I also thought it was a waste of time. I even wrote to the organisers afterwards to tell them I thought they were missing an opportunity. There were two courses running in adjacent rooms and we were constantly distracted by loud laughter from the room next door. Our own instructor missed the opportunity to explain what happens when a speeding car hits another object and tried to be a "character" instead. I was expecting to leave with a changed attitude and although I drive at or below the speed limit in build-up areas, especially in 20 limits, I admit that I almost never stick to 70 on the motorway.

 

[Shearwater Missile]

I also went on a speed awareness course and I also thought it was a waste of time. I even wrote to the organisers afterwards to tell them I thought they were missing an opportunity. There were two courses running in adjacent rooms and we were constantly distracted by loud laughter from the room next door. Our own instructor missed the opportunity to explain what happens when a speeding car hits another object and tried to be a "character" instead. I was expecting to leave with a changed attitude and although I drive at or below the speed limit in build-up areas, especially in 20 limits, I admit that I almost never stick to 70 on the motorway.

When I did the course we had two instructors who took it in turns. We had a video played where a car was driving along a country road and we had to say when there was something to note ie a car at a junction etc etc. There was also a part where we saw a car overtaking on a bend in the road and what happened next. A tractor was coming the other way ! It beggars belief at how many people do overtake just before a bend. We were shown the difference between an accident happening at say 35mph and 25 mph. It may make the difference between someone just being injured to being killed. This course was run by Suffolk County Council back in 2016. A colleague I worked with also did the course some time before I did. He too thought that it was a waste of time. I just kept quiet.

 

[Globalti]

They could just subject participants to an hour of Russian car crash videos for more effect.