Anyone on MINUS % bank rates yet

[wafter]

Not only is it unsustainable, everyone knows it is unsustainable, but no one wants to fix it if it means they actually have to be the first to step off of the gravy train. It's akin to environmentalists telling us how we should protect the planet, while themselves being unwilling to give up their foreign homes and private jets.

There is a big upheavel coming, and the longer the financial model continues as it does, the more pain and disruption it will bring when it collapses. A new dark age beckons.

100%.

 

[Archie_tect]

Not only is it unsustainable, everyone knows it is unsustainable, but no one wants to fix it if it means they actually have to be the first to step off of the gravy train. It's akin to environmentalists telling us how we should protect the planet, while themselves being unwilling to give up their foreign homes and private jets.

There is a big upheavel coming, and the longer the financial model continues as it does, the more pain and disruption it will bring when it collapses. A new dark age beckons.

It's unfixable without making everything dysfunctional... those who have are scared of those who haven't so control the system... and those who haven't are repressed by the system, which adapts, usually violently, to always have the upper hand

 

[Notafettler]

Not only is it unsustainable, everyone knows it is unsustainable, but no one wants to fix it if it means they actually have to be the first to step off of the gravy train. It's akin to environmentalists telling us how we should protect the planet, while themselves being unwilling to give up their foreign homes and private jets.

There is a big upheavel coming, and the longer the financial model continues as it does, the more pain and disruption it will bring when it collapses. A new dark age beckons.

Definitely unsustainable has been so for.....1,000 of years. There has always been vast differences in peoples wealth. Why would anyone think it isn't sustainable all of sudden.

 

[wafter]

Definitely unsustainable has been so for.....1,000 of years. There has always been vast differences in peoples wealth. Why would anyone think it isn't sustainable all of sudden.

Existing societies accepted that's 1000 years occupied exclusively by civilisations that have grown, prospered and subsequently collapsed; usually with the involvement of significant economic factors. The core tenet of modern capitalist economic policy is that growth can continue unabated perpetually. Surely it's patently obvious that such a concept is fundamentally flawed, simplistic in the extreme and that all growth must eventially reach limits.

A few factors that will likely contribute towards curtailing this mythical perpetual growth upon which our great economic ponzi scheme is predicated:

- Falling reproduction rates - people are having fewer kids; due to falling biological fertility, reduced prosperity and reduced desire. Fewer people means lower economic activity and less money to pay for the upkeep of the ageing previous generation / pay off the debt they've incurred.

- Ageing population - tied into the above; thanks to the high reproduction rates of the boomer generation and their enjoyment of improved healthcare, we'll have an increasingly top-heavy population with a growing proportion of dependants relative to those who can provide for them.

- Falling prosperity - the current youth generation is the first in living memory to be expected to have a lower quality of life than their parents.

- Spiralling debt - both public and private: It's clear from the fact that both private individuals and entire nations are having to rely increasingly on growing amounts of debt just to maintain the status quo, the current system cannot continue indefinitely as it is.

- Totally dysfunctional economic system - the relationships and rules upon which the economic model were initially based have long since gone out of the window thanks to increasingly desperate, unprecedented monetary policy to try and prevent the house of cards from collapsing - such as abandonment of the gold standard allowing massive money-printing / currency devaluation and negative interest rate policy.

- Environmental destruction - the continued squandering of natural resources in terms of both raw materials and energy, as well as the rampant destruction of the planet in the name of "profit" sees our environment becoming both more physically hostile and less productive; resulting in increased cost of, competition for / conflict arising from the growing scarcity of natural resources.

- The rise of artificial intelligence - the masses used to be an inconvenient necessity for the privileged few - increasingly this is not the case as AI makes growing numbers of people redundant and essentially unemployable. How do we suppose they're going to react when they can no longer feed themselves? What will be the knock-on effect of their dwindling income on the consumption our capitalist model so desperately relies upon?

- Growing wealth disparity - the system currently in place serves to exploit those with the least to further line the pockets of those with the most. This can only continue for so long until desparation leads to civil unrest and social change; for better or worse. Also, wealth concentration results in lower levels of spending; further cripping economic activity.

- Covid - we have a massively service-centric economy; much of which will be destroyed as people choose to opt out of this non-essential spending; either through fear of infection or dwindling disposible income.

- Brexit - we are a largely consumptive nation that produces little and relies on imports for much of what we consume - food, energy, goods... and we've now voted to effectively destroy the relationship with our close neighbours that facilitates said imports. This will likely result in rising costs of living as well as reduced currency value against those of more productive nations.


I can't see why anyone capable of critical, rational thought can't be concerned about the future tbh, given the current situation.

 

[RoadRider400]

Highly unlikely that savings accounts will become negative %

Am I missing something? Of course savings accounts (ie accounts with the specific purpose of holding money to grow the capital) will not become negative %. People would simply close the account.

I think the OP is referring to current accounts.

 

[SpokeyDokey]

Re savings rates.

Yesterday we just put some more money into a BLME FRB (fscs protected) with a 5 year lock at 1.6%.

Not Earth shattering but a good rate in the current climate and far better than leaving it lurking in a current account.

Worth a look if you've money to spare that you don't mind tying up for a while.

https://www.blme.com/products-and-services/savings/premier-deposit-account/

 

[Notafettler]

That's hell of a long time.

 

[Eziemnaik]

Inflation is falling rapidly. I have a marcus account which is beating Inflation with ease but they are lowering interest rates constantly. It's instant access account. I can move money from Marcus to my bank account within minutes.
You need to take into account what @Electric_Andy is doing. He is insuring himself against a sudden need for money, which could result in him borrowing at say 5% interest or more. Insurance cost money. In his case if he is Saving at zero % interest his cost are Inflation about 0.2% at the moment. A cheap form of insurance.

Inflation is falling rapidly...
Hmmmm...

Avarage house price growth 2010-2020 - 42%
Avarage MP salary growth 2010-2020 -25%
Avarage salary growth 2010-2020 - 15%

 

[Notafettler]

@Eziemnaik Hmm we are talking about now. Not 2010 What will you quote next 1930 to 1932?!

 

[wafter]

Inflation is falling rapidly...
Hmmmm...

Avarage house price growth 2010-2020 - 42%
Avarage MP salary growth 2010-2020 -25%
Avarage salary growth 2010-2020 - 15%

This in spades, plus the fact that given terrible interest rates there's been enormous growth in anything that could be considered an "investible asset" - houses as mentioned but also classic cars, motorbikes, art... anything that might be considered collectable.

In more mundane terms you only have to pay attention when doing the weekly shop to see that food has jumped substantially; probably by around 20% since the brexit vote trashed our currancy, plus the similar effect this has had on non-essential consumer goods, many of which have had one-off hikes of 10-20% in addition to usual 2-3% annually added for inflation.

The government tell us inflation is low / sub-2%, however in reality / real terms (rather than their politically-massaged published figures) I reckon it's 5%+ annually.

IMO over the next 6-12 months as spending dries up we'll see deflation of these "investible" asset bubbles (I believe some such as classic cars are already on their way down) as well as deflation in non-essential / luxury consumer goods... this is of course unless the government pull out more stops to keep people spending; although there's no more waggle room on the interest rate and more money printing will only fuel inflation.

Unfortunately I think we'll continue to see real-world inflation in essentials as we continue to rely on imports and our currency tanks as the Brexit turd we've been sold is exposed to it's true horiffic extent in the cold light of day.

 

[Notafettler]

however in reality / real terms (rather than their politically-massaged published figures

Evidence to support this? CPI and CPIH are a European Union method of measuring inflation even the US use it. Of course everyones rate of inflation is different. Maybe you should try pointing out that AND the less well off will be affected more by food inflation instead of making knee jerk statements which have no basis in fact.

 

[Eziemnaik]

This in spades, plus the fact that given terrible interest rates there's been enormous growth in anything that could be considered an "investible asset" - houses as mentioned but also classic cars, motorbikes, art... anything that might be considered collectable.

In more mundane terms you only have to pay attention when doing the weekly shop to see that food has jumped substantially; probably by around 20% since the brexit vote trashed our currancy, plus the similar effect this has had on non-essential consumer goods, many of which have had one-off hikes of 10-20% in addition to usual 2-3% annually added for inflation.

The government tell us inflation is low / sub-2%, however in reality / real terms (rather than their politically-massaged published figures) I reckon it's 5%+ annually.

IMO over the next 6-12 months as spending dries up we'll see deflation of these "investible" asset bubbles (I believe some such as classic cars are already on their way down) as well as deflation in non-essential / luxury consumer goods... this is of course unless the government pull out more stops to keep people spending; although there's no more waggle room on the interest rate and more money printing will only fuel inflation.

Unfortunately I think we'll continue to see real-world inflation in essentials as we continue to rely on imports and our currency tanks as the Brexit turd we've been sold is exposed to it's true horiffic extent in the cold light of day.

The most tragic thing is the bike price inflation.
105 bikes that used to sell for a 1000 starting at 1500????

 

[Notafettler]

The most tragic thing is the bike price inflation.
105 bikes that used to sell for a 1000 starting at 1500????

And a multigym that I paid £900 for 12 years ago I sold on eBay for £1100. He collected at 1pm today....after 2 hours taking it apart!!

 

[wafter]

The most tragic thing is the bike price inflation.
105 bikes that used to sell for a 1000 starting at 1500????

I'm sure exactly the same happened during the decline of the Roman empire as their currency was debased... although that would have been Campag gear, obviously

 

[Notafettler]

I can't see why anyone capable of critical, rational thought can't be concerned about the future tbh, given the current situation.

So if we don't agree we are not rational? A bit harsh