Another daft Question

[italiafirenze]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is that these are exceptional people anyway. These people were born with a physical advantage over most of us, you can't just make an athlete you have to be born one. After that training etc kicks in. Yes training, diet, equipment etc will make you better but its unlikely to make you like these people.

I think that is true if you are talking about the very elite. It seems to be what seperates the Armstrongs, Lemonds and Merckxs of this world from the rest of the peloton; but as human beings we're all capable of amazing things, yet so few of us try to reach those limits.

 

[darth vadar]

Thanks for the replies folks.

I have to say that 20 mph is an exceptional ride for me and certainly not the norm.

I don't think that the TV coverage accurately reflects just how fast and fit these guys really are.

Wow!!!

 

[zexel]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is that these are exceptional people anyway. These people were born with a physical advantage over most of us, you can't just make an athlete you have to be born one. After that training etc kicks in. Yes training, diet, equipment etc will make you better but its unlikely to make you like these people.

I'd disagree with physical advantage. most of us have (had ) the physical potential to become an elite cyclist, whether it be lightweight/smaller climber or a sprinter.

IMO it's down to the pychological advantage, that 'drive' to cycle for 4-6 hours a day EVERY day. You have to want that. It's the same for all elite athletes.

 

[Adasta]

I'd disagree with physical advantage. most of us have (had ) the physical potential to become an elite cyclist, whether it be lightweight/smaller climber or a sprinter.

I disagree. While mental strength is clearly required, some people are born to be athletes. Their bodies are "put together" in a way which inclines them to excel at certain types of athletic activity. Look at Lance, for example.

 

[zexel]

Hmmm, 'put together' differently! Yeah, right.

Hard work and a lot of drugs got Lance to where he got.

Quote from your article, "But other elite athletes have similarly powerful hearts and lungs. Instead, Coyle says, smarter training may have contributed to giving Armstrong an edge over his competitors."

 

[apollo179]

I disagree. While mental strength is clearly required, some people are born to be athletes. Their bodies are "put together" in a way which inclines them to excel at certain types of athletic activity. Look at Lance, for example.

Surely lance strengthens the case for the mental strength arguement - he epitomises mental strength , the will to overcome adversity and win at all costs.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

When Roger Banister broke the 4 min mile there were claims that his heart was larger than any other man. The born better has overtones of eugenics imho. The way the body is put together may dictate a predisposition to a type of event (slow or fast twitch muscle fibres for eg) but that aside I believe that nurture plays a far greater part than nature.

 

[Baggy]

Your VO2 max also has a lot to do with it. If your natural VO2 max rate isn't good, training will only improve it so far.
"The average young untrained male will have a VO[sub]2[/sub] max of approximately 3.5 litres/minute and 45 ml/kg/min.[sup][5][/sup] The average young untrained female will score a VO[sub]2[/sub] max of approximately 2.0 litres/minute and 38 ml/kg/min.[sup][citation needed][/sup] These scores can improve with training and decrease with age, though the degree of trainability also varies very widely: conditioning may double VO[sub]2[/sub]max in some individuals, and will never improve at all in others.[sup][6][/sup][sup][7][/sup]In sports where endurance is an important component in performance, such as cycling, rowing, cross-country skiing, swimming and running, world class athletes typically have high VO[sub]2[/sub] maximums. World class male athletes, cyclists and cross-country skiers typically exceed 75 ml/kg/min and a rare few may exceed 85 ml/kg/min for men and 70 ml/kg/min for women.[sup][citation needed][/sup] Five time Tour de France winner Miguel Indurain is reported to have had a VO[sub]2[/sub] max of 88.0 at his peak."

I think my VO2 max is probably not dissimilar to a large mouse's.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Your VO2 max also has a lot to do with it. If your natural VO2 max rate isn't good, training will only improve it so far.
"The average young untrained male will have a VO[sub]2[/sub] max of approximately 3.5 litres/minute and 45 ml/kg/min.[sup][5][/sup] The average young untrained female will score a VO[sub]2[/sub] max of approximately 2.0 litres/minute and 38 ml/kg/min.[sup][citation needed][/sup] These scores can improve with training and decrease with age, though the degree of trainability also varies very widely: conditioning may double VO[sub]2[/sub]max in some individuals, and will never improve at all in others.[sup][6][/sup][sup][7][/sup]In sports where endurance is an important component in performance, such as cycling, rowing, cross-country skiing, swimming and running, world class athletes typically have high VO[sub]2[/sub] maximums. World class male athletes, cyclists and cross-country skiers typically exceed 75 ml/kg/min and a rare few may exceed 85 ml/kg/min for men and 70 ml/kg/min for women.[sup][citation needed][/sup] Five time Tour de France winner Miguel Indurain is reported to have had a VO[sub]2[/sub] max of 88.0 at his peak."

I think my VO2 max is probably not dissimilar to a large mouse's.

Could you show me were the article states that natural VO2 levels have a bearing on your ability to improve those levels through training / conditioning please?

 

[Baggy]

"The average young untrained male will have a VO[sub]2[/sub] max of approximately 3.5 litres/minute and 45 ml/kg/min.[sup][5][/sup] The average young untrained female will score a VO[sub]2[/sub] max of approximately 2.0 litres/minute and 38 ml/kg/min.[sup][citation needed][/sup] These scores can improve with training and decrease with age, though the degree of trainability also varies very widely: conditioning may double VO[sub]2[/sub]max in some individuals, and will never improve at all in others.[sup][6][/sup][sup][7][/sup]In sports where endurance is an important component in performance, such as cycling, rowing, cross-country skiing, swimming and running, world class athletes typically have high VO[sub]2[/sub] maximums. World class male athletes, cyclists and cross-country skiers typically exceed 75 ml/kg/min and a rare few may exceed 85 ml/kg/min for men and 70 ml/kg/min for women.[sup][citation needed][/sup] Five time Tour de France winner Miguel Indurain is reported to have had a VO[sub]2[/sub] max of 88.0 at his peak."

The wikipedia article will state the sources under [6] and [7] but it's information I've seen on a lot of training websites.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

The wikipedia article will state the sources under [6] and [7] but it's information I've seen on a lot of training websites.

That states that training produces widely different results so hardly concusive for the "born that way" argument.

 

[atbman]

On my second (and last) club trip to the velodrome, we finished up with a flying one lap time trial. One of the oldest but not quite the slowest.

Calculated my eyeballs out speed when I got home - was about 0.5mph slower than Yvonne McGregor did for 70+ laps when she broke the world hour record.

Glad I didn't compare it with Boardman/Obree results

They occupy a different world to me and thee

 

[Baggy]

But you're either born with a VO2 max that will respond to training, or you're not.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

But you're either born with a VO2 max that will respond to training, or you're not.

You are infering that because some people respond to training and others don't that your vo2 max is fixed at birth. To my mind that hypothesis is flawed as their could be numerous other factors at play. What we can believe is training will improve max vo2 in some and not in others.

 

[Baggy]

You are infering that because some people respond to training and others don't that your vo2 max is fixed at birth. To my mind that hypothesis is flawed as their could be numerous other factors at play. What we can believe is training will improve max vo2 in some and not in others.

My interpretation is that if you can't improve past a certain point through training it's probably due to a limiting genetic disposition. That's the only reason I can think of for my being stuck behind this laptop instead of being out on the Grande Boucle Feminin!