alex_cycles
Veteran
- Location
- Oxfordshire
Excellent. How ofen are you rewaxing? I'm tending to do it roughly every 300km. I haven't taken one to the point of getting really noisy yet.
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Excellent. How ofen are you rewaxing? I'm tending to do it roughly every 300km. I haven't taken one to the point of getting really noisy yet.
Jameshow
Veteran
Do you notice the chain being any less efficient? I sometimes feel a well lubed chain moves round the jockey wheels that much smoother and more efficiently. I wonder if a waxed chain feels any slower?
alex_cycles
Veteran
- Location
- Oxfordshire
Apart from a little bit noisy and clunky 'running in' for the first few miles after each waxing, I can barely tell the difference. The biggest immediate bonus is not having to clean the drivetrain
Sea of vapours
Guru
- Location
- Clapham, Yorkshire Dales
A little less than that; probably every 400km typically, but I re-waxed after about 200km once after several hours of rain, and a couple of times it's gone to 500km before re-waxing. I've never reached a point of it becoming noisy; it was just that 500km seemed a lot so I re-waxed. In future, I shall probably aim for about 300km since the effort in doing so is negligible.
No! I seriously doubt I could tell either way. OK, for the first fifteen or twenty minutes after re-waxing, the chain has not loosened off and is noticeably stiff on gear changes, but that phase ends quickly and thereafter it is quiet and feels like a freshly lubricated chain. (Pretty much exactly as @alex_cycles has said above as I was typing this in fact, including the cleanliness aspect.)
Ajax Bay
Guru
- Location
- East Devon
Thanks for revisiting and sharing that. Impressive. And a reward for experimentation.
So you're not cleaning the chain at all before rewaxing?
Does the wax accumulate deposits or does that sink to the bottom?
Do you use a wipperman link or do you think the chain's as sold quick link will be fine with ?40 re-uses?
Sea of vapours
Guru
- Location
- Clapham, Yorkshire Dales
I wipe the chain after each ride with a cloth onto which I've sprayed some isopropyl alcohol. i.e. I just hold the cloth around the chain and pedal backwards two or three chain rotations. The idea of that is to remove a) dust, b) water. So far, no corrosion, so the latter is presumably working. I've used about 100ml of isopropyl alcohol so far, so I'm not talking about lots of it.
I think 'both' to some degree. To mitigate that possible issue, I have two small Crockpots, one of which has a wire platform at the bottom. I put the chain in that one first, melt the wax and shake it around a bit. I hope that any particles drop below the 10mm high, wire platform. I then swish the chain in the second pot which, in theory, won't ever have any particles in it; it should at least have fewer. I'm sure this is OTT, but it doesn't hurt and may do some good. The amount of wax used is the same as using one pot, over time. When the 'contaminated' pot runs out, I'll make the 'clean' pot into the 'contaminated' pot and replenish the wax in what is now the 'clean' pot.
I do have a Wippeman Connex link on this chain and it's very easy to connect and disconnect. It was painfully expensive, however, and I presume it will wear at the same rate as the rest of the chain and thus that I ought to buy a new one for a new chain. As a result, for the next chain, I may well use the possibly cheaper option of the YBN quick links, which are sold as being reusable five times and cost about the same, for six, as one Wipperman Connex link ( https://inaspin.co.uk/collections/ybn-chains/products/ybn-11-speed-master-link-qrs-11-silver-gold ) . The additional cost of whatever quick link type I use will be comfortably offset by the saving in component replacement (including the cassette and chainwheels) if the chains really do last 14-20 thousand kilometres. Critically, however, even if the chains only last as long as normal, which seems improbable at this point, the cleanliness of everything is worth it (to me) by itself !
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alex_cycles
Veteran
- Location
- Oxfordshire
I blast my chains with compressed air if they get wet or dusty. Other than that no special cleaning before rewaxing. My wax pot has no visible signs of contamination. As regards quicklinks, I'm using the re-usable KMC quicklinks that came with the chains and all good so far after several iterations. (I carry brand new spare quicklinks in the "kitchen sink" saddlebag 
)
)
A brief update..
Over the winter I'd added about 50% by mass of paraffin oil to the wax mixture in the pan, the intention being to thin / soften it in the hope that it'd give more uniform / tenacious coverage and prevent corrosion. This had the desired effect in terms of physical properties, jury's out on the anti-corrosion (although chains seemed to fare pretty well considering); but also seemed to kill its longevity (chains started squeaking after maybe 100 miles). Can't be 100% sure this was the cause as the bikes concerned have been outside (under cover) or in a damp shed all winter..
Another issue I'd encountered on the Fuji was that the chain was skipping on the lowest sprocket on the cassette - found to be the result of wax buildup between the sprockets.. Again I think this is potentially because of the wax being softer / less likely to flake off, while a disportionate amount of the accumulated material between the sprockets seemed to be compacted moly powder. By comparison, while the Genesis has some deposits in this area too, it's covered about six times the distance of the Fuji with no issues on the harder wax mixture.
So... I've split the wax puck in two, removed one half and added the same mass of pure wax back into the mix - making it considerably harder and reducing the amount of moly powder by a factor of two.
The takeaway from all this being that the wax evidently needs to be fairly hard to retain some longevity, while the excess of moly seemed to have contributed to the wax clagging round the sprockets. In future, knowing what I know now I'd just go in with a pure / very slightly dilute wax as I don't think the moly powder necessarily brings a lot to the table, other than significant cost.
Over the winter I'd added about 50% by mass of paraffin oil to the wax mixture in the pan, the intention being to thin / soften it in the hope that it'd give more uniform / tenacious coverage and prevent corrosion. This had the desired effect in terms of physical properties, jury's out on the anti-corrosion (although chains seemed to fare pretty well considering); but also seemed to kill its longevity (chains started squeaking after maybe 100 miles). Can't be 100% sure this was the cause as the bikes concerned have been outside (under cover) or in a damp shed all winter..
Another issue I'd encountered on the Fuji was that the chain was skipping on the lowest sprocket on the cassette - found to be the result of wax buildup between the sprockets.. Again I think this is potentially because of the wax being softer / less likely to flake off, while a disportionate amount of the accumulated material between the sprockets seemed to be compacted moly powder. By comparison, while the Genesis has some deposits in this area too, it's covered about six times the distance of the Fuji with no issues on the harder wax mixture.
So... I've split the wax puck in two, removed one half and added the same mass of pure wax back into the mix - making it considerably harder and reducing the amount of moly powder by a factor of two.
The takeaway from all this being that the wax evidently needs to be fairly hard to retain some longevity, while the excess of moly seemed to have contributed to the wax clagging round the sprockets. In future, knowing what I know now I'd just go in with a pure / very slightly dilute wax as I don't think the moly powder necessarily brings a lot to the table, other than significant cost.
alex_cycles
Veteran
- Location
- Oxfordshire
I've had this on my indoor bike on the smallest sprockets. The solution is to only run the new chain in on the larger ones while it's shedding wax. Then the buildup doesn't occur. But also keep an eye on it and scrape off as needed.
I haven't found the need to change mine from the original recipe and still rewaxing from the original batch (3 bikes, 3 chains each). Very happy with the whole process to-date.
Cheers! Tbh it's no great hardship to run a brush over the cassette every once in a while; just never noticed the need on bikes other than the Fuji.
Glad you're having success with your approach too
alex_cycles
Veteran
- Location
- Oxfordshire
Cheers! Tbh it's no great hardship to run a brush over the cassette every once in a while; just never noticed the need on bikes other than the Fuji.
Glad you're having success with your approach too
I noticed it quite quickly when following the instruction I read (can't remember where) to use all the gears when running in the new chain. Stand up to sprint in Zwift on the smallest sprockets and it skips. I found it necessary to use a straight edge with a sharp corner to scrape off the buildup.
After a few iterations I realised there really isn't any need to use the smallest two sprockets for the first 5 miles or so and it almost completely elimiminated the problem. I now do the same on my road bike. But also we now know to look out for it as well.
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GuyBoden
Guru
- Location
- Warrington
I've waxed my chain this week. It's lasting very well, mainly due to not riding a bike for over 6 months.
Unfortunately after only around 100 miles the Fuji chain again started squeaking recently.
Having paid a bit more attention to the wax I've found that there's quite a lot of metallic contamination present in the mixture
I suspect that this is due to my having waxed two well-used, previously-oiled chains (that which came on the Fuji and one from my mate's old MTB shed that I'm about to go and try to fix). Despite my best efforts to have cleaned these (and the masses of steel particulates that came out of them during this process) it's not unreasonable to expect that some contamination remained and have subsequently been released into the wax during treatment.
Of course it's also possible that some of the contamination is from wear on the chains that have been waxed since new - although I think this is a lot less likely to have caused significant amounts of particulates due to the extremely minimal wear I've observed in these chains so far.
So.. earlier I removed the solid wax puck from the pan and had a little dig at its bottom face with a fingernail.. clearly illustrating the problem. The image below shows the tracts of metallic contamination visible in the surface of the puck, this layer continuing for maybe a couple of mm depth before reaching clean wax / moly mix in the deepest bit at the middle of the hole - identfied by the lack of sparkly bits:
At this point I took a knife to it and started scraping off all the contamination; again showing an obvious different in appearance between the contaminated lower layers and the clean wax futher from this lower surface:
After the bulk of the contaminated wax had been removed there were still a few flakes visible in the remaining surface; so more scraping was had to remove apparently the last of the problem:
At the end of all this I'd removed around 22g, or 7% of wax from the originally-334g puck. Certainly not the end of the world but I suspect a disproportionate amount of moly went with it; while the presence of this powdered additive (which tends to settle to the bottom) probably meant more of the mixture needed to be removed compared to had it been pure wax (which would have allowed the contamination to settle out closer to the bottom face of the puck).
I've now re-waxed the Fuji chain in the clean mixture and hope that will solve the issue of the persistant, premature squeak.
A few potential takeaways from this escapade:
- Waxing previously used chains carries with it the very high liklihood of contaminating your wax. I've been cleaning my used chains by soaking / shaking in a jar of paraffin; those with ultrasonic cleaners might fare better - although tbh if you want to wax it's probably best to just start with a new chain.
- Inspect your solified wax puck periodically for contamination; this will be heavier than the wax so will sink to the bottom.
- Contaminated wax can be wrapped in newspaper and used for lighting open fires / log burners / BBQs / the homes of the politcal ruling class
- Don't use your best pocket knife to scrape the puck - unsurprisingly dragging it across a surface that's contaminated with particulates of hardened steel doesn't do the edge any favours
In future I won't be waxing any chains that haven't been waxed from new (actually, I might use the old, still-contaminated half of the old puck to do my mate's chain; depending on how he gets on). I'll keep an eye on the contamination situation; my gut suggests that it was largely the fault of nasty chains that I'd tried to resurrect and as such shouldn't be an issue in future. I guess time will tell!
Having paid a bit more attention to the wax I've found that there's quite a lot of metallic contamination present in the mixture
I suspect that this is due to my having waxed two well-used, previously-oiled chains (that which came on the Fuji and one from my mate's old MTB shed that I'm about to go and try to fix). Despite my best efforts to have cleaned these (and the masses of steel particulates that came out of them during this process) it's not unreasonable to expect that some contamination remained and have subsequently been released into the wax during treatment.
Of course it's also possible that some of the contamination is from wear on the chains that have been waxed since new - although I think this is a lot less likely to have caused significant amounts of particulates due to the extremely minimal wear I've observed in these chains so far.
So.. earlier I removed the solid wax puck from the pan and had a little dig at its bottom face with a fingernail.. clearly illustrating the problem. The image below shows the tracts of metallic contamination visible in the surface of the puck, this layer continuing for maybe a couple of mm depth before reaching clean wax / moly mix in the deepest bit at the middle of the hole - identfied by the lack of sparkly bits:
At this point I took a knife to it and started scraping off all the contamination; again showing an obvious different in appearance between the contaminated lower layers and the clean wax futher from this lower surface:
After the bulk of the contaminated wax had been removed there were still a few flakes visible in the remaining surface; so more scraping was had to remove apparently the last of the problem:
At the end of all this I'd removed around 22g, or 7% of wax from the originally-334g puck. Certainly not the end of the world but I suspect a disproportionate amount of moly went with it; while the presence of this powdered additive (which tends to settle to the bottom) probably meant more of the mixture needed to be removed compared to had it been pure wax (which would have allowed the contamination to settle out closer to the bottom face of the puck).
I've now re-waxed the Fuji chain in the clean mixture and hope that will solve the issue of the persistant, premature squeak.
A few potential takeaways from this escapade:
- Waxing previously used chains carries with it the very high liklihood of contaminating your wax. I've been cleaning my used chains by soaking / shaking in a jar of paraffin; those with ultrasonic cleaners might fare better - although tbh if you want to wax it's probably best to just start with a new chain.
- Inspect your solified wax puck periodically for contamination; this will be heavier than the wax so will sink to the bottom.
- Contaminated wax can be wrapped in newspaper and used for lighting open fires / log burners / BBQs / the homes of the politcal ruling class
- Don't use your best pocket knife to scrape the puck - unsurprisingly dragging it across a surface that's contaminated with particulates of hardened steel doesn't do the edge any favours
In future I won't be waxing any chains that haven't been waxed from new (actually, I might use the old, still-contaminated half of the old puck to do my mate's chain; depending on how he gets on). I'll keep an eye on the contamination situation; my gut suggests that it was largely the fault of nasty chains that I'd tried to resurrect and as such shouldn't be an issue in future. I guess time will tell!
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alex_cycles
Veteran
- Location
- Oxfordshire
Not had any issues at all here, but I've only used brand new chains. Still going strong with my 9 chains on three different bikes, 9 months and 6000 miles into the experiment. My original batch of wax is pristine and I expect it to last another year at the current rate.
Sea of vapours
Guru
- Location
- Clapham, Yorkshire Dales
I'm sure you're right that much of the contamination will have come from chains which were not waxed from new. And of course you can wipe off chains before re-waxing to minimise contamination. That said, some particles may still get in and to limit those going back into a chain you can use a small, wire platform at the bottom of the pot, say about 10mm high. The particles then sink away from the chain, even when the chain is being swished to stir the wax. Seems to work in mine anyway.
