20mph - latest thoughts?

[smutchin]

They are both road users.

So are pedestrians. So are HGVs.

Set the commonality as high as you can.

You're setting it waaaaay too high.

 

[martint235]

So are pedestrians. So are HGVs.



You're setting it waaaaay too high.

And I'm fully expecting pedestrians and HGVs to stick to the 20 limit. Your point?

 

[Dan B]

That's hardly worth engaging with. You're asking if people behaving illegally should be treated as those acting legally?

My understanding is that there are circumstances in which it is legal (for some people, after appropriate licensing/training/whatever) to carry a gun, so no I'm not asking that. I'm totes cool with the idea that people driving cars illegally should be treated differently from other people who are driving legally

 

[martint235]

My understanding is that there are circumstances in which it is legal (for some people, after appropriate licensing/training/whatever) to carry a gun, so no I'm not asking that. I'm totes cool with the idea that people driving cars illegally should be treated differently from other people who are driving legally

And I'm happy for someone legally carrying a gun to be treated the same as someone legally carrying a banana. Are you suggesting that people legally carrying a gun should be treated differently?

 

[smutchin]

Cars are lethal weapons and even when they are used legally they kill an awful lot of people.

If you want to take laws that apply to motorists and apply them to cyclists as well, you need damn sight better justification than "they are both road users".

 

[martint235]

Cars are lethal weapons and even when they are used legally they kill an awful lot of people.

If you want to take laws that apply to motorists and apply them to cyclists as well, you need damn sight better justification than "they are both road users".

If you draft a law to specifically include groups rather than a law that includes everyone and then specifically excludes groups you will create loopholes.

What is so contentious about riding at 20 for a few hundred yards?

 

[smutchin]

What is so contentious about riding at 20 for a few hundred yards?

We're going round in circles now. The reasons for speed limits were more than adequately set out in the OP. Your commonality line is specious. There isn't much more to add to that.

You said yourself upthread that while the speed limits don't apply to cyclists you will continue to go faster, which suggests that you don't really believe there is a good reason to restrict cyclists' speed.

 

[Dan B]

And I'm happy for someone legally carrying a gun to be treated the same as someone legally carrying a banana. Are you suggesting that people legally carrying a gun should be treated differently?

Yes, emphatically. I'm suggesting that they should be licensed and trained, and that having acquired that license that there should be restrictions on when and where and how they may carry the gun, with civil and crimimal penalties (including loss of licence) if they fail to comport themselves in accordance with those restrictions. I don't see any need at all to establish similar restrictions on the use and conveyance of bananas

 

[growingvegetables]

.... Set the commonality as high as you can.

Really?

Require reflectors to be fitted to the pedals of cars and trucks, and no motorised vehicle to be sold without a bell fitted?

 

[Pat "5mph"]

Nobody obeys 20mph zones here, they don't even slow down for road humps, I regularly get bullied out of the way in such streets.

 

[classic33]

Build speed cameras into the cats eyes.

Most councils are getting shot of "Cats Eyes" since Percy went.

 

[martint235]

Ok one last go. Conor McGregor, Devon Toner, Jimmy Krankie and Stephen Hawking are going down the street. Do the physical violence laws apply differently to these people? Why not? Should all go smoothly, there is no incident. However when the assault law is broken, they bring significantly different levels of risk and danger.

The law should be as black and white as you can make it. The grey area comes between verdict and sentencing.

Did you hit the man? Yes. Guilty. No ifs no buts. Now circumstances:

• Me and the lads had had a cracking night out then this geezer looked at ma bird funny so I lamped him then put the boot in for a bit. 5 years in prison.
• He's been abusing me for 10 years, on this occasion I thought he was going to kill me so I hit him with a chair and ran. 1 year suspended sentence and get the victim somewhere safe.

Were you doing more than 20mph in a 20 zone? Yes. Guilty. No ifs no buts. Circumstances:

• I was watching this funny kitten on my phone, I didn't even look at my speedo until I heard the screaming. Lifetime ban from driving and 7 years in prison.
• My wife was in labour, it was 3am and there was no one around. I didn't hit anyone. 2 points on your license, £60 fine and congratulations on your baby daughter.
• I was on my pushbike and was trying to maintain 25mph for half a mile and I did it. Well done son, next time practice in a 40 zone, £30 fine.

 

[martint235]

Really?

Require reflectors to be fitted to the pedals of cars and trucks, and no motorised vehicle to be sold without a bell fitted?

You understand "as high as you can " don't you or do I now have to deal with this level of intelligence?

 

[velovoice]

The most dangerous part of my 12-mile commute into London is a narrow residential street (parked cars on both sides, too narrow for cars coming from opposing directions to get passed each other). It's a 20mph zone -- painted large all over the road surface at frequent intervals, lots of signage. It's a rat run. Absolutely insane. When the lights at the junction release traffic into the road, the acceleration and jostling for position is incredible. No enforcement whatsoever.

The rest of my commute is a joy. (Seriously.)

 

[mjr]

As @smutchin is intimating, there is no speed limit for cycles in Royal Parks. A common misconception.

I know. It still hasn't stopped them enforcing a limit.