20mph - latest thoughts?

[growingvegetables]

They have speed limits for pedestrians in Iran.

North Korea has a minimum speed limit for pedestrians. Drop below of and you become Pedigree Chum.

Evidence for either?

By contrast, https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/28/spain-proposal-to-breathalyse-pedestrians. And just priceless, "the Council of State is also against moves to dramatically cut driving speed limits."

For those who can't be arsed to click links, those are not references to "bogeyman states", but Spain.

 

[smutchin]

Evidence for either?

It's on the internet, it must be true.

 

[crazyjoe101]

You didn't want to pay the same rate of VED as a bicycle owner as you did as a motor vehicle owner, on the grounds that a bicycle is "less polluting". None of mine are polluting in use.

We can't pick and chose which laws/rules we want to have to obey. That's probably why things, such as speed limits apply to all motor vehicles. Regardless of size.

Working the other way, we have minimum speed limits. You can't maintain it, find another way round it/through it.

I don't understand what you're trying to tell me, all I did was provide examples as to why different vehicles are treated differently.
I was stating it would be silly to treat everyone the same as road users because then, for example, I would pay the same VED as a HGV, and I would require the same licensing to use the road.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

I look at it from the pedestrians' perspective. In a 20mph zone, they are entitled to expect that the limit is there to prioritise their safety and that it should be respected by all vehicle operators. The elderly, and others who are less mobile, should be able to cross streets in these zones without the worry and apprehension that comes with doing the same in a 30mph, or higher, area. Crossing those roads is stressful, worrying and tiring, as they hurry as best they can to get to the other side.

And I don't expect the average pedestrian to know that speed limits can't be enforced against cyclists.

As infrequent as the opportunity to exceed it may be, I will always comply with the posted speed limit while cycling. While it might not be my legal obligation, I feel it is my moral/societal obligation.

 

[mjr]

I look at it from the pedestrians' perspective. In a 20mph zone, they are entitled to expect that the limit is there to prioritise their safety and that it should be respected by all vehicle operators.

If you were looking at it from the pedestrians' perspective, you'd give way as needed to any you see, regardless of the posted motor speed limit! The limits are there because motorists are no longer trusted not to take the mickey and blast along at 50 or whatever the limit allows even if a corner is blind. Don't ride like a daffodil and give reason for speed limits to apply to cycling too.

Despite the limits, any pedestrian expecting motorists to respect a speed limit is taking a big risk these days. We can't even trust that the nobbers will stop for long-changed red lights at crossings any more - the motto seems to be "no conflicting motor traffic? Then no stopping!". There should be more enforcement cameras and the motoring lobby should be roundly condemned if they dare oppose them.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

If you were looking at it from the pedestrians' perspective, you'd give way as needed to any you see, regardless of the posted motor speed limit!

Don't quite get what you're saying there.

Don't ride like a daffodil and give reason for speed limits to apply to cycling too.

Are you telling me not ride like a daffodil?

 

[mjr]

Don't quite get what you're saying there.

I'm saying that people should treat pedestrians kindly even if a road doesn't have a 20mph limit. The speed limit is largely irrelevant to that.

 

[classic33]

I'm saying that people should treat pedestrians kindly even if a road doesn't have a 20mph limit. The speed limit is largely irrelevant to that.

Not always. We've large areas where pedestrians have priority, but vehicle traffic doesn't let this little matter get in the way.

Often using it as a shortcut, going faster than the signed limit(5 & 10mph). Sometimes the wrong way.

Why shouldn't speed limits apply t cyclists though? One rule for them, another for us. Or one we don't want to have to follow!

 

[mjr]

Not always. We've large areas where pedestrians have priority, but vehicle traffic doesn't let this little matter get in the way.

So how does that make the speed limit relevant?!?

Why shouldn't speed limits apply t cyclists though? One rule for them, another for us. Or one we don't want to have to follow!

I've given my reasons why not, which IIRC you didn't like, but there's still no reasons why they should - someone else pointed out that it's not true that the same speed limits apply to all motor vehicles. Speed limits for cycling still seems about as sensible as speed limits for dropped hammers.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

I'm saying that people should treat pedestrians kindly even if a road doesn't have a 20mph limit.

Well, yes, I do that and haven't suggested differently. For me the pedestrian is top of the road user hierarchy and I won't hassle or bully them for errors or misjudgements.

My point is that 20mph zones should be areas where pedestrians can be more relaxed about their environment; 30mph zones are more about keeping motor traffic moving at the expense of pedestrian interruptions. Treating pedestrians kindly should also include cyclists not exceeding posted limits.

 

[classic33]

So how does that make the speed limit relevant?!?

I've given my reasons why not, which IIRC you didn't like, but there's still no reasons why they should - someone else pointed out that it's not true that the same speed limits apply to all motor vehicles. Speed limits for cycling still seems about as sensible as speed limits for dropped hammers.

You missed the bit about signed speed limits out.

And you correct me if this bit is wrong, but whatever the motor vehicle, if you're in a speed restricted area be it 30, 40 or 50, and signed and marked as such. Then you're breaking the speed limit

 

[mjr]

And you correct me if this bit is wrong, but whatever the motor vehicle, if you're in a speed restricted area be it 30, 40 or 50, and signed and marked as such. Then you're breaking the speed limit

That's wrong: some goods vehicles can find themselves in a signed 50 or 60 but only allowed to do 40 (single carriageway) or 50 (dual) by the Road Traffic Regulation Act.