20 cm away from death

[magnatom]

It's always going to get a little sectarian when cycling and truck forums cross, but on the whole most people are reasonable enough to realise that this was not a clever piece of driving.

Without putting words into magger's mouth (my voice isn't high enough and I don't know enough swear words) I'm sure that he'll get no pleasure from the fallout from this incident. Even if the police do nothing, there's a reasonable chance that this guy might lose his job. It may be deserved, but its not funny. In the same way, I doubt that most of the gentlemen (and ladies?) of trucknet would sleep well if they killed a cyclist, no matter what the circumstances and balance of blame.

Absolutely Bollo.

My stress levels are definitely raised at the moment and the whole thing leaves a bad taste in the mouth. I don't want anyone to loose their job. For all I know this bloke might be the nicest bloke on the planet with 6 kids to feed. However, the driving in that clip was so poor, that I wouldn't want to think that he would ever do that again. If he didn't see me (which I can't beleive) it is entirely possible that he wouldn't have even known an incident had occurred. When in charge of such a tanker you need to be aware of everything around you, especially in your intended path!! He wasn't and that suggests that maybe, a change of career would be good for him and everyone else. It's not nice, but I have to follow it through.

Actually I am not too concerned about the chat on trucknet. There are a lot of reasonable posters which for the internet in general is pretty good.

If there are any people from trucknet on here, another place to have a look is here and if you have time the 'Time for Action' thread.

As cyclists we we (certainly most on here) are acutely aware of the dangers of cyclist HGV interaction. HGV drivers have a duty of care, but cyclists do also. If my incident in some way helped drive the campaign for safer HGV/cyclist interactions and less deaths then it will have served a purpose.


With regards to the police, I have handed my video in today. we'll see what happens....

 

[ComedyPilot]

Been reading some of the garbage on that site, and a few posters make statements about you not looking Mags. Of course, you are a robot that can only look at something by turning your head in that direction.

It scares me a little that people who drive TONS of HGV through our towns villages and cities don't know the physical concept of eyeball movement being independent to head movement?

'The camera didn't move, so he (Mags) can't have looked'

Sigh.........

 

[Origamist]

As cyclists we we (certainly most on here) are acutely aware of the dangers of cyclist HGV interaction. HGV drivers have a duty of care, but cyclists do also. If my incident in some way helped drive the campaign for safer HGV/cyclist interactions and less deaths then it will have served a purpose.

Mags, what, if anything, do you think you have learnt from this incident?

 

[magnatom]

Mags, what, if anything, do you think you have learnt from this incident?

You like these sorts of questions, don't you Origamist!

With respect to the way I cycle, there is always room for improvement. With hindsight maybe I could have been traveling slower...maybe. However, if I ask myself would I take the junction at the same speed again in the same circumstances, I'd have to be honest and say I would. 99.99999% of the time the HGV would stop and no incident would occur. On this occasion I can't see anything that I did wrong, apart from misinterpreting what the HGV was about to do, i.e. my spidey sense got it wrong.

I suppose my threshold for caution will be lowered slightly, but not by a huge amount. I'll certainly be a little less likely to assume because someone appears to be slowing and that they appear to have seen me, that they will actually stop. I don't think I ever fully assume that anyway, I kept a close eye on him all the way through, but again the threshold will be a bit lower.

At the end of the day I did manage to stop, despite some horrific driving. From that I've learned that I'm actually not too bad at stopping in an emergency. However, there is no place for complacency and i should continue to do everything I can to avoid ever being in that position again.


Cycling in this morning taking my prefered quiet back road route (which takes me to that roundabout) I suddenly realised that I have a good argument against those that suggest I go looking for trouble. If I wanted trouble, I wouldn't take the quiet back roads. They take longer , have zillions of potholes and have more hills. However, they avoid a very busy A road where poor overtaking is a regular occurrence. Given the choice, and weather that is not too icy, I will choose the back roads every time. Why? because I love the peace and quiet and the lack of conflict. I do not seek trouble, I do my best to avoid it.

 

[BentMikey]

You liar! Everyone knoes that helmet camera cyclists go out looking for trouble, and making it whereever possible.

More seriously, you're totally right. Conflicts are horrible, but then when they do happen a camera is an invaluable tool in stopping a traffic bully.

 

[magnatom]

If you want a laugh have a read of this forum. IMy video shows that they are linking to it. It's seems to be a bunch of mainly US flight sim enthusiasts who don't actually understand how roundabouts work, discussing the rights and wrongs of my cycling. I haven't read it all but what I have is quite amusing!

 

[Norm]

If you want a laugh have a read of this forum.

That's brilliant! Most of that stuff you couldn't make up!

To be honest i don't blame the trucker for not stopping, he has a heavy load there if he braked he may of lost control and the concequences could of been alot worse.

Yeah, of course the fuc... sorry, trucker should drive over the cyclist, he was going too fast to have stopped at the give way lines.

Its not like the cyclist gave any indication he was entering the round about either

Golly gee... now we have to indicate to enter a roundabout? Anyone know what indication we should be using to enter a roundabout, as the trucker could also do with learning it.

What was the trucker meant to do? By the time he'd have noticed the cyclist, slamming on and/or would have been the wrong thing to do,

How about slowing down before he got to the give way lines, so that he could, you know, give way to anything that had priority? Just an idea.

What the guy on the bike was doing at the centre of the roundabout i have no idea

Yeah, fancy using the correct lane on a roundabout, no wonder the guy tried to kill you.

I know I shouldn't do that, as they have no form of redress on here, but from those comments alone, I wonder what sort of person inhabits a forum for flight sims.

 

[magnatom]

Golly gee... now we have to indicate to enter a roundabout? Anyone know what indication we should be using to enter a roundabout, as the trucker could also do with learning it.

Aye this ones a classic. The only 'appropriate' signal I can imagine would be to signal left onto the roundabout. How many vehicles would pull out on you if you did that!

 

[Landslide]

I did see a cyclist give a "straight on" hand signal once. Looked pretty much like a "Heil Hitler!".

 

[Origamist]

You like these sorts of questions, don't you Origamist!

With respect to the way I cycle, there is always room for improvement. With hindsight maybe I could have been traveling slower...maybe. However, if I ask myself would I take the junction at the same speed again in the same circumstances, I'd have to be honest and say I would. 99.99999% of the time the HGV would stop and no incident would occur. On this occasion I can't see anything that I did wrong, apart from misinterpreting what the HGV was about to do, i.e. my spidey sense got it wrong.

I suppose my threshold for caution will be lowered slightly, but not by a huge amount. I'll certainly be a little less likely to assume because someone appears to be slowing and that they appear to have seen me, that they will actually stop. I don't think I ever fully assume that anyway, I kept a close eye on him all the way through, but again the threshold will be a bit lower.

You were in an invidious position. It's easy for wise owls to hoot about slowing more or stopping at the RaB (giving way to the left in order to avoid a potential collision) when a possible consequence of such behaviour might be another potential collision - the hit from behind (a tailing vehicle will not expect you to defer to the left, when it is clear on the right - hence the high number of shunts at RaBs). You can imagine in this scenario many people would criticise you for not following the HC and "causing" a collision (even though the driver who hit you from behind would be culpable).

After this incident, my take on HGVs changed:

http://www.cyclechat.net/forums/showpost.php?p=421762&postcount=144

I realised there was not a lot, if anything, I could have done differently if a HGV driver wants to recklessly endanger me. Before the near miss, I was careful and cautious around large vehicles: I respected them - afterwards I feared them (immediately afterwards, I was panicky when I came into contact with them) - and considered every HGV a massive threat, no matter how benign the driving.

 

[HaloJ]

Slightly late to this thread and have only read the first three pages to the video and frankly I'm shaken. Totally and utterly aghast at how poor that driving was. I'm in my 6th month of commuting now and have only had to take drastic action once and I cripes I'm lost for words. Glad that you're ok. I'll read the rest of the thread later.

All the best,

Abs

 

[magnatom]

You were in an invidious position. It's easy for wise owls to hoot about slowing more or stopping at the RaB (giving way to the left in order to avoid a potential collision) when a possible consequence of such behaviour might be another potential collision - the hit from behind (a tailing vehicle will not expect you to defer to the left, when it is clear on the right - hence the high number of shunts at RaBs). You can imagine in this scenario many people would criticise you for not following the HC and contributing to a collision (even though the driver who hit you from behind would be culpable).

After this incident, my take on HGVs changed:

http://www.cyclechat.net/forums/showpost.php?p=421762&postcount=144

I realised there was not a lot, if anything, I could have done differently if a HGV driver wants to recklessly endanger me. Before the near miss, I was careful and cautious around large vehicles: I respected them - afterwards I feared them (immediately afterwards, I was panicky when I came into contact with them) - and considered every HGV to pose a massive threat to me, no matter how benign the driving.

I see your incident was with a tipper truck. I don't like generalisations, however, if one group of HGV dirvers cause more problems it's the tipper or skip drivers.

Yes, as I said, if I was to take the roundabout again, I am pretty sure I would take it the same. This morning the roundabout was busier, but I probably approached with the same speed and slotted on quite nicely as happens 99.99999% of the time.

I think our cycling is always shaped by our experience and this certainly was an experience! Will it put me off, no way! Will I be a little more wary of HGVs, maybe. Will I enjoy my commute, you betcha! This morning was a beautiful morning, and apart from one horn pusher wanting me to be in the cycle lane (I gave them a wave and a smile) it was great fun.

 

[StuartG]

I think Mags may be wrong on one fact "they made eye contact". I don't doubt Mags thought that and it may have influenced his approach - but people can glaze over and not be registering what their eyes are seeing. My wife assures me I'm a master of this!

No sane HGV tanker driver is going to race you into a roundabout. The downsides to the driver are plainly not worth the risk. His career, liberty even life (if there was a spillage) are on the line here. So, assuming there is no insanity, it is down to Mags not being seen. Whether the road sign contributed or something else was distracting the driver only he will know. It maybe one of those 'blips' we all have. 99% of the time they do not matter but being behind a wheel or on a cycle and at the wrong time and $%^&

While the driver IMHO has sole responsibility for the near miss, all have responsibility for anticipating impending disaster and taking avoiding action. I wasn't there so I don't know what my judgement would be combining his eye contact with his lack of driver reaction. Would it have been earlier (no story) or later (obituary). But Mags, that's the place to carefully look to see if you can do better. Not a criticism since its near misses get you thinking more deeply about it. However, never ever use the excuse that he was completely in the wrong to not admit that one's own judgement failed. It did.

That is nothing to be ashamed of - unless you ignore it.

 

[magnatom]

I think Mags may be wrong on one fact "they made eye contact". I don't doubt Mags thought that and it may have influenced his approach - but people can glaze over and not be registering what their eyes are seeing. My wife assures me I'm a master of this!

No sane HGV tanker driver is going to race you into a roundabout. The downsides to the driver are plainly not worth the risk. His career, liberty even life (if there was a spillage) are on the line here. So, assuming there is no insanity, it is down to Mags not being seen. Whether the road sign contributed or something else was distracting the driver only he will know. It maybe one of those 'blips' we all have. 99% of the time they do not matter but being behind a wheel or on a cycle and at the wrong time and $%^&

While the driver IMHO has sole responsibility for the near miss, all have responsibility for anticipating impending disaster and taking avoiding action. I wasn't there so I don't know what my judgement would be combining his eye contact with his lack of driver reaction. Would it have been earlier (no story) or later (obituary). But Mags, that's the place to carefully look to see if you can do better. Not a criticism since its near misses get you thinking more deeply about it. However, never ever use the excuse that he was completely in the wrong to not admit that one's own judgement failed. It did.

That is nothing to be ashamed of - unless you ignore it.

Stuart, without doubt my judgment failed. I wrongly anticipated his actions. However, that is the crux of the issue, it is anticipation. No matter how good we are at anticipating things, sometimes we can get it wrong. Obviously I did here.

What the video doesn't show is the length of time I eyeballed the HGV on approach to the roundabout. There is a reasonable section on approach where we could clearly see each other. That is where I 'thought' he clocked me and I clocked him. I still think he saw me. I think this, as I am sure that he did start slowing at that point. That and the 'eyeball' made me confident enough to proceed. It turned out that any slowing was temporary and the rest is obvious from the video.

 

[661-Pete]

I see your incident was with a tipper truck. I don't like generalisations, however, if one group of HGV dirvers cause more problems it's the tipper or skip drivers.

If we're generalizing: then may I suggest: ready-mixed cement trucks can be a real nightmare. Trouble is, they're driving to a tight schedule: they've got to reach their destination before the cement solidifies in the truck. And haven't there been a number of fatal left-hooks involving just this type of lorry?