2 more women die in London

[theclaud]

Which do you reckon it is, the possession of a penis enabling riding up a curb more easily, or the possession of breasts making it more difficult?

Is it not more likely to be women needing to stop and do their makeup first?

 

[jonny jeez]

Querying the 2015 database, three women cyclists were killed in collisions in London with vehicle type 20 "Goods over 3.5t. and under 7.5t" and three by vehicle type 21 "Goods 7.5 tonnes mgw and over". The three men cyclists were killed in collisions with type 20, type 9 "Car" and type 1 "Pedal cycle", one each.

("select Accident_Index,Vehicle_Type from Vehicles where Accident_Index in (select Accident_Index from Casualties where Casualty_Type = 1 and Sex_of_Casualty = 2 and Casualty_Severity = 1) and Accident_Index in (select Accident_Index from Accidents where Police_Force in (1,48));")

Is this a statistical blip? Hard to say for 2015 London fatalities alone because the numbers are so small. If we assume that it's basically random what the outcome is (big assumption) and look at all reported casualties (so drop the Casualty_Severity constraint) and group by vehicle type, we see this:

• 1 Pedal cycles: 1012
• 2 Motorcycle 50cc and under: 4
• 3 Motorcycle 125cc and under: 27
• 4 Motorcycle over 125cc and up to 500cc: 4
• 5 Motorcycle over 500cc: 9
• 8 Taxi/Private hire car: 85
• 9 Car: 648
• 10 Minibus (8 - 16 passenger seats): 2
• 11 Bus or coach (17 or more pass seats): 18 (2%)
• 19 Van / Goods 3.5 tonnes mgw or under: 104 (10%)
• 20 Goods over 3.5t. and under 7.5t: 21 (2%)
• 21 Goods 7.5 tonnes mgw and over: 27 (3%)
• 90 Other vehicle: 1
• (Total collisions: 992 )

Similar for male cyclists:

• 1 Pedal cycles: 3507
• 2 Motorcycle 50cc and under: 9
• 3 Motorcycle 125cc and under: 52
• 4 Motorcycle over 125cc and up to 500cc: 10
• 5 Motorcycle over 500cc: 33
• 8 Taxi/Private hire car: 274
• 9 Car: 2453
• 10 Minibus (8 - 16 passenger seats): 4
• 11 Bus or coach (17 or more pass seats): 84 (2%)
• 19 Van / Goods 3.5 tonnes mgw or under: 329 (9%)
• 20 Goods over 3.5t. and under 7.5t: 40 (1%)
• 21 Goods 7.5 tonnes mgw and over: 39 (1%)
• 90 Other vehicle: 16
• 98 Goods vehicle - unknown weight: 3
• (Total collisions: 3485 )

The other big assumption in these stats... on collisions, is that many cycle collisions go unreported. Unlike vehicle collisions that need reports to follow up insurance claims, for event the slightest of scratches.

my personal experience (of friends and clubs) is that probably around 80% of the collisions that occur, even with a full "off", go unreported, often with the driver just carrying on and not stopping.

KSi are obviously a different matter but 1012 and 3507 cycle collisions, reported?

 

[jonny jeez]

Drivers in the one case, domestic abusers in the other. Killing people is the responsibility of those doing the killing.

Yes but you are making the huge assumption that it is always the drivers fault.

how do you *know* this?

 

[jonny jeez]

Which do you reckon it is, the possession of a penis enabling riding up a curb more easily, or the possession of breasts making it more difficult?

ok, that actually is funny.

 

[jonny jeez]

Two points.
Firstly, I don't believe the above is true.
Secondly, under reporting of cyclist deaths, and skewed by gender? Seriously?

they are not deaths, they are collisions, I'm talking specifically about collisions that @mjr is quoting here.
so yes, it really could, its possible that male ego restricts "blokes" from reporting incidents, just dust yourself up...MTFU!

 

[mjr]

I think your point about the cycle hire scheme is interesting. I wonder if it would be able to cross reference whether those killed were on a Boris Bike. I seem to recall one case off hand - but I'd have thought that if there'd been more deaths there'd have been more made of it by the media.

It's not in RRCGB but TfL clearly keep records because http://www.bmj.com/content/348/bmj.g425 so you could try www.whatDoTheyKnow.com if it's not already published.

The other big assumption in these stats... on collisions, is that many cycle collisions go unreported.

Yes, that's generally true for anything using RRCGB. I think even minor motoring collisions are unreported more than most people might think, despite the stricter law.

Unlike vehicle collisions that need reports to follow up insurance claims, for event the slightest of scratches.

First, don't cycle collisions need reports if anyone want to make an insurance claim off a cyclist?

Second, here we're looking mainly at cycle-motor vehicle collisions, so they should be reported as much as motor-motor ones (which is what I think you meant).

Yes but you are making the huge assumption that it is always the drivers fault.

how do you *know* this?

It might be only making the assumption that it's most often the driver's fault, which we know because http://www.cyclinguk.org/blog/chris-peck/whos-to-blame-in-crashes-between-cyclists-and-motorists and similar.

 

[theclaud]

Yes but you are making the huge assumption that it is always the drivers fault.

how do you *know* this?

Actually, the word I used was 'responsibility'. Drivers (and vehicle operators more generally) have a responsibility not to hit people with their vehicles, whether or not the people they hit are without fault.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

Third fatality now, not known if victim is male or female at this point.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crim...his-week-after-crash-with-lorry-a3462951.html

 

[vickster]

Third fatality now, not known if victim is male or female at this point.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crim...his-week-after-crash-with-lorry-a3462951.html

Another bloody lorry

 

[mjr]

Another bloody lorry

and a different road environment. What I'd call a fast wide distributor road with paint+signs relabelling the pavement on one side as a cycle track (I think I've walked it but never cycled it), compared to CS2 and an unreconstructed estate rat-run yesterday.

 

[jonny jeez]

Actually, the word I used was 'responsibility'. Drivers (and vehicle operators more generally) have a responsibility not to hit people with their vehicles, whether or not the people they hit are without fault.

Ah....right.

 

[theclaud]

Ah....right.

Which bit of not hitting people with vehicles do you disagree with?

 

[psmiffy]

Another bloody lorry

I think this is the crux of the matter - lorries are responsible for over 40% of the incidents but only represent 4% of the traffic

 

[jonny jeez]

Which bit of not hitting people with vehicles do you disagree with?

no bit

 

[theclaud]

no bit

Jolly good then.