105 11 speed......anyone using them ?? any thoughts??

[Nigelnaturist]

@mrandmrspoves
My KMC 10 sp chain I put on in July has done 1,800 miles without out a hitch in all weathers.

 

[bpsmith]

Looking at a new bike that has Shimano 105 11 speed fitted.
Another dealer I spoke to advised against them for a number of reasons e.g. replacement part costs (I've never had a broken chain so not expecting one any time soon )
Just wondering if anyone has first hand advice.

Not really............my OP was that the bike I am looking at has 11 speed and I want to know if anyone has good/bad experience with it.

Didn't mention the dealers saying that the parts were expensive at all then!?!

 

[mrandmrspoves]

I've never known any difference in chain life anytime an extra sprocket has been added, I think that's largely a myth. And if a chain snaps something was wrong with it, it's nothing to do with how narrow it is..

I agree the chain had a fault....It was made by Shimano! No issues with the KMC replacement so far.
There has to be a point of ever diminishing returns and I think we are already at that point as far as gearing goes. As technology evolves, solutions to existing problems will be found - I remember the Puck Prima which was one of the first bikes to make the leap to a 6 speed rear block. Unfortunately the wheels were rubbish and most of them became badly buckled. As more sprockets are squeezed in, there is the added disadvantage of trying to fine tune the gears.

 

[mrandmrspoves]

Try living somewhere a bit lumpier and the advantage of lots of gears would soon become apparent!

Fair comment - but as I ride a recumbent trike, even Norfolk Hills feel like mountains.
The extra sprocket will not make a significant difference to hill climbing. Mountain bikes manage quite adequately with 10 or even 9.

 

[Smokin Joe]

As more sprockets are squeezed in, there is the added disadvantage of trying to fine tune the gears.

I've had every indexed system from seven to ten and if anything fine tuning the gears has become easier and more precise. Don't forget that as more clicks are added the engineering quality has to improve in tandem to cope. I read somewhere years ago (Round the time ten speed came out) that Shimano's R&D had an experimental system running 15 cogs on a mountain bike.

We often forget how simple bicycles are compared to other vehicles and what we think of as advanced engineering is actually rather basic stuff.

 

[ColinJ]

The extra sprocket will not make a significant difference to hill climbing. Mountain bikes manage quite adequately with 10 or even 9.

From my point of view, it is more about smaller steps between sprockets.

The steps between the gears on my 10 sp 11-32 MTB cassette are noticeably (and annoyingly) bigger than the steps between the gears on my 10 sp 13-29 road cassette!

 

[mrandmrspoves]

The other factor of course, is the increased move back to compact chainsets with a double on the front rather than a triple. Consequently at best an 11 speed may have 22 gears (not all useable) where as a triple with 10 could boast 30 possible gears.

 

[StuAff]

The other factor of course, is the increased move back to compact chainsets with a double on the front rather than a triple. Consequently at best an 11 speed may have 22 gears (not all useable) where as a triple with 10 could boast 30 possible gears.

Not all the gears on a triple are useable either.....with a double chainset the crossover of useful/useable sprockets when switching rings tends to be wider. There's no 'right' answer to this.

 

[ColinJ]

The other factor of course, is the increased move back to compact chainsets with a double on the front rather than a triple. Consequently at best an 11 speed may have 22 gears (not all useable) where as a triple with 10 could boast 30 possible gears.

True, though not all gears on a triple are useable.

I like triples and have just put one on my Cannondale. I chose the rings to give lower gears than a compact chainset, with nice small steps between them. My top gear is now only 48/13 which is fine most of the time, though it might be nice to have an 11 or 12 sprocket for fast descents or strong tailwinds. The thing is though, I like the small steps between the sprockets on my 10 sp cassette, so to get that higher gear it would be handy to have 11 sp ...

With the hills round here, my speed can vary from less than 3 mph to over 50 mph, so the more gears, the better. I think 3 x 11 would be the limit though because that would cover from falling-off slow to terrifyingly-fast with close ratios.

 

[bpsmith]

Interesting article:

http://thedailygrind.robdamanii.com/2012/04/09/the-irrelevance-of-the-triple/

Basically, a triple has 17 usable gears and a compact has 15 usable gears. This is based on chain position and duplicated ratios.

 

[Nigelnaturist]

Interesting article:

http://thedailygrind.robdamanii.com/2012/04/09/the-irrelevance-of-the-triple/

Basically, a triple has 17 usable gears and a compact has 15 usable gears. This is based on chain position and duplicated ratios.

Several things wrong, for instance his choice of an 11-23 cassette is in my opinion a wrong comparison.
This is from the using the same cassette, figures in gear inch's

Also please note the the number of duplicate gears is a lot less than its made out to be.
The inner ring @ 90rpm is good for speeds between 8-15mph. to get the same low gear on a compact you would need to go to a 30th rear introducing another wider range.

This is my current set up, and what I would prefer when I get some extra cash on the right.

I could also get into the extreme angles of the chain and excessive wear because of this on the chain, as things are the outer ring doesn't like anything from 50x17-27 or rather I don't because of excessive chain noise, I also hear this on other peoples compacts as they have no choice but to ride a 50x17-19 to get a gear on which to spin at 18-20mph @ 90rpm, my average gear is about 60" bang in the middle of the front rings and middle of the cassette (this is why I miss the 18th).

What happens is people are lead to believe there is no other option other than what we are told is best for us, as for maintenance I bet my chain lasts longer on my triple than on any compact, and other parts as well as they are not in extreme positions to have usable gears.

 

[bpsmith]

@Nigelnaturist Yet another annoyingly succinct and detailed reply. One which can only come from experience with Triples.

I am solely Compact since getting back into bikes after a long time away.

The point about the Middle ring being perfect for the Middle of the rear cassette at 17-20mph is something that I hadn't thought about tbh. It's an interesting point in that it will be the most efficient chain line possible.

 

[DaveS]

I can see the time in the not too distant future when a 1x10 or 1x11 road group will be offered. All the gears are then discrete, narrow wide chainring to prevent drop, and death to the dreadful double\tripple mess we have right now. That extra gear will matter more then.

 

[Dave7]

Didn't mention the dealers saying that the parts were expensive at all then!?!

picky picky that was an arguement the dealer made against it................I just wanted some genuine advice re' will I have problems or not.

 

[bpsmith]

picky picky that was an arguement the dealer made against it................I just wanted some genuine advice re' will I have problems or not.

Then why mention the price issue at all?

Anyway, I wasn't having a go at you mentioning it, but strengthening why I replied about that point. No harm meant.

It's important for people who read the thread at a later point. Numerous posts suggesting price is an issue, needed balancing with real world pricing to prove otherwise.

To get back to other reasons not to buy, I don't see any real downside to 105 11 speed vs 10 speed at all. Dura Ace and Ultegra have already paved the way and ironed out niggles. 105 is now the trickle down level and will be a drastic improvement over the old model of Ultegra is anything to go by. My Ultegra 11 speed is so much better than my 10 speed when comparing smoothness of shifting, especially on the front mech. The extra throw of the arm makes it so much better.

Any of the above posters actually used 11 speed by any chance?