Zwift vs Real World

[<Tommy>]

As a grumpy, snobbish, outdoor-only cyclist, I don't give kudos for Zwift rides on Strava! 😄

It is a bit snobbish really, I think you’re right.

Not that I’m in a position to judge, I think a lot of us have had those thoughts from time to time.

But I have done a lot of online racing. So I can appreciate the amount of effort that goes into those sessions. I can say well done for the effort as I recognise it. The same as I can say well done to someone who’s put effort into anything in life.

Your opinion that people would be better of outside is also completely subjective. Perhaps there is an assumption that all people cycle for the same reasons, but obviously they don’t. For example someone else might argue that if your primary motivation is getting as fit as possible then cycling indoors through the winter is more beneficial. Others would argue they take different things from each, and like to find a balance between the two.

 

[<Tommy>]

Getting back to the original question or debate opener as it’s become!

Just thinking about it, the most comparable metrics I’ve found between online and real life is probably over long climbs online vs actual cycling.

I guess it’s because it reduces a lot of the variables between the two.

 

[DogmaStu]

It is a bit snobbish really, I think you’re right.

Not that I’m in a position to judge, I think a lot of us have had those thoughts from time to time.

But I have done a lot of online racing. So I can appreciate the amount of effort that goes into those sessions. I can say well done for the effort as I recognise it. The same as I can say well done to someone who’s put effort into anything in life.

Your opinion that people would be better of outside is also completely subjective. Perhaps there is an assumption that all people cycle for the same reasons, but obviously they don’t. For example someone else might argue that if your primary motivation is getting as fit as possible then cycling indoors through the winter is more beneficial. Others would argue they take different things from each, and like to find a balance between the two.

I think Jay Vine and many others have proven Zwift Racing is very effective. Effort is directly comparable. Watts vs Watts are equal.

 

[JuhaL]

It is a bit snobbish really, I think you’re right.

Not that I’m in a position to judge, I think a lot of us have had those thoughts from time to time.

But I have done a lot of online racing. So I can appreciate the amount of effort that goes into those sessions. I can say well done for the effort as I recognise it. The same as I can say well done to someone who’s put effort into anything in life.

Your opinion that people would be better of outside is also completely subjective. Perhaps there is an assumption that all people cycle for the same reasons, but obviously they don’t. For example someone else might argue that if your primary motivation is getting as fit as possible then cycling indoors through the winter is more beneficial. Others would argue they take different things from each, and like to find a balance between the two.

Seems to be quite common way to think that people say indoor riding with turbo trainer isn't real cycling because you can also ride certain indoor places where bike is actually moving forward. For me indoor training is real like outdoor riding as well. Winter is a season when I do fully 100% indoor training because winter is too cold for me and those rides what I do indoors I would do them outdoors as well if weather would be much more suitable for me, so I count all outdoor rides with pure conscience.

Many says that indoor rides should not count to total milage in a year, well I do.

 

[<Tommy>]

I think Jay Vine and many others have proven Zwift Racing is very effective. Effort is directly comparable. Watts vs Watts are equal.

Yeah I don’t think it’s a coincidence that professional riders, who were often quite dismissive of turbo training, were kind of forced indoors during the pandemic. And over the last couple of years the standard they have reached has pushed the boundaries of performance to new levels.

 

[DogmaStu]

Yeah I don’t think it’s a coincidence that professional riders, who were often quite dismissive of turbo training, were kind of forced indoors during the pandemic. And over the last couple of years the standard they have reached has pushed the boundaries of performance to new levels.

They still raced and trained outdoors too though. I still trained outdoors because I subscribed to the Pro license that period so that I could ride with my friend who was a Pro.

Edit to add: this was in Portugal, not the UK. Pro's in many places in Europe just had to show their licenses to the Police.

 

[<Tommy>]

They still raced and trained outdoors too though. I still trained outdoors because I subscribed to the Pro license that period so that I could ride with my friend who was a Pro.

Edit to add: this was in Portugal, not the UK. Pro's in many places in Europe just had to show their licenses to the Police.

I have seen quite a few interviews with coaches and riders who said they really had their eyes opened to the value of indoor training during that period. That’s what I based my last comment on. It kind of makes sense. During lockdown even if you could justify training outdoors lots of people didn’t want to in case they had an accident which would need medical care. Riding in groups also added extra risk of course.

 

[DogmaStu]

I have seen quite a few interviews with coaches and riders who said they really had their eyes opened to the value of indoor training during that period. That’s what I based my last comment on. It kind of makes sense. During lockdown even if you could justify training outdoors lots of people didn’t want to in case they had an accident which would need medical care. Riding in groups also added extra risk of course.

Yes, that makes sense. The lockdowns where I was were nothing like those in the UK though - we didn't have as much restriction and I'm glad I was living there at that time. My daily life was unaffected. We were allowed and encouraged to exercise but during some parts of the lockdown, we had to stay in our Municipal region. I got the license to go between regions because my friend lived in the next one, even though it was very close!

Most of the Pandemic we were even allowed to ride in Groups. It was only for the lockdowns that we had to be alone or with 1 other.

 

[Jon in Sweden]

I don't dispute that there is a value to it, certainly. Like Concept 2 rowing (which I used to do), it builds very good fitness for the real thing, but I think you miss so much of the experience if all you do is grind away on Zwift in your garage.

For instance, I'll end up doing about 14,000km this year. Every month of the year here in SE Sweden with rides from minus 16c to plus 32c. I've watched the seasons change, seen staggering sunrises and captivating sunsets. I've seen capercaillie, moose, wild boar, literally hundreds of deer and loads more wildlife too. I greatly enjoy exploring all the little gravel roads here that weave through the forest, taking me to new lakes and forests, hamlets and meadows. I am now (by all accounts), the most knowledgeable rider when it comes to gravel roads in our area, despite having only lived here for 15 months.

Much of my mileage just now is commuting (27.5km each way, each day, 3-5 times a week), where I have a variety of routes open to me. When I drive, I find myself stressed (and there is near enough zero traffic) and lethargic. Even though I'm now commuting in the dark and my colleagues think I'm mad, I couldn't imagine always driving and then jumping on the trainer after work.

There are definitely weeks when getting out on the roads is tricky. I have studded tyres, but fresh snow is tough. A trainer would be useful then. But if I had one, it'd be too tempting to use it when conditions outside were a bit off, and where I'd be missing out on all the mental health benefits of cycling outdoors.

So I'd say, by all means, use Zwift if you want to, but I'd encourage folks to consider it as a secondary, supportative activity, rather than a sport in and of itself

 

[CXRAndy]

As a grumpy, snobbish, outdoor-only cyclist, I don't give kudos for Zwift rides on Strava! 😄

It's a point of principle really. It's a useful tool to support outdoor cycling, but it's not relatable to the real world. The kilometer count is meaningless.

I also think having it as an option prevents many people from getting out in the darker months when they'd be better off outside. I got out for 50km of gravel yesterday after being ill for a few days. It was 0.3 - 2c, damp and a bit grey. But I saw more deer than cars, wonderful autumn colours and my head felt completely refreshed. I'd never have had that in my garage on a trainer.

I understand where you are coming from. But I much prefer indoor riding, especially in the winter.

Last Sunday morning I did a large group event for 65miles indoors. It was horrendous weather outside locally. Damned good workout

A bit of a low miles year, 2200 miles. Of which one official outdoor event of 40 miles. So over 2k indoors

 

[Ming the Merciless]

Yes, that makes sense. The lockdowns where I was were nothing like those in the UK though

Throughout the UK lockdowns you could get out on your bike as often and as long as you liked.

 

[<Tommy>]

Throughout the UK lockdowns you could get out on your bike as often and as long as you liked.

Yes technically that is true. Although it was recommended that you didn’t go too far from home. And not generally in groups either.

And lots of people chose not to on the premise they didn’t want to potentially over burden the nhs etc.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

Yes technically that is true.

Technically and legally. The rubbish spouted by ministers was nonsense, changed day to day or based on which minister was asked, and didn’t match the reality of the law.

As for overburdening the NHS, ha ha ha, because the wards are full of riders who went out for a ride or walk or run.

 

[CXRAndy]

Mrs and I got out regularly in the first lockdown. We would make a little picnic and cycle off to destinations within 20 miles or so.

I also collected my kids from London. They lived with us for several months and enjoyed walks, cycling in the local vicinity

 

[<Tommy>]

I don't dispute that there is a value to it, certainly. Like Concept 2 rowing (which I used to do), it builds very good fitness for the real thing, but I think you miss so much of the experience if all you do is grind away on Zwift in your garage.

For instance, I'll end up doing about 14,000km this year. Every month of the year here in SE Sweden with rides from minus 16c to plus 32c. I've watched the seasons change, seen staggering sunrises and captivating sunsets. I've seen capercaillie, moose, wild boar, literally hundreds of deer and loads more wildlife too. I greatly enjoy exploring all the little gravel roads here that weave through the forest, taking me to new lakes and forests, hamlets and meadows. I am now (by all accounts), the most knowledgeable rider when it comes to gravel roads in our area, despite having only lived here for 15 months.

Much of my mileage just now is commuting (27.5km each way, each day, 3-5 times a week), where I have a variety of routes open to me. When I drive, I find myself stressed (and there is near enough zero traffic) and lethargic. Even though I'm now commuting in the dark and my colleagues think I'm mad, I couldn't imagine always driving and then jumping on the trainer after work.

There are definitely weeks when getting out on the roads is tricky. I have studded tyres, but fresh snow is tough. A trainer would be useful then. But if I had one, it'd be too tempting to use it when conditions outside were a bit off, and where I'd be missing out on all the mental health benefits of cycling outdoors.

So I'd say, by all means, use Zwift if you want to, but I'd encourage folks to consider it as a secondary, supportative activity, rather than a sport in and of itself

I do totally hear what you’re saying. For what it’s worth I consider myself a cyclist at heart rather than an indoor trainer.

But… for all the things you, quite correctly in my opinion, mention as benefits of cycling. Indoor training also offers benefits that cycling doesn’t. The indoor racing is the one I’m thinking of really. I’m sure it bares very little relation to real racing. Or even real cycling quite honestly. But it is great fun and a great workout. Irrelevant of whether it can be considered cycling or not. I’d definitely recommend trying it if you haven’t already