Zwift Chat

[CXRAndy]

Love capturing sunrises and sunsets

This morning 🌄

 

[Legs]

Love capturing sunrises and sunsets

Yep, there've been some really lovely ones all week, haven't there?

Another 5am-er tomorrow, to get in a ride on Rolling Highlands. Will report back! Anyone doing the midnight ride?

It's absolutely beautiful (obviously), although I was concentrating more on the riders around me than the scenery! There is a nice, steep-ish kicker 1.5km from the line, then a lull, and a more gradual ascent for the last 600m to the finish line. I think it's going to make for some great racing.

 

[Supersuperleeds]

Just done Rolling Highlands and then and went and did the gravel climb (north side) and the crit circuit (might not have done that the right way round)

The climb is fine, it's 1.6km and peaks at 13%. The crit circuit has a couple of nasty ramps, think they hit 7% or 8%.

It's a tiny world, I did just under 16 miles and covered all roads, some both directions due to doing the Rolling Highlands routes, looks good for racing.

 

[Peter Salt]

Love capturing sunrises and sunsets

This morning 🌄

View attachment 676570

Is that your castle in the distance?

Yep, there've been some really lovely ones all week, haven't there?

It's absolutely beautiful (obviously), although I was concentrating more on the riders around me than the scenery! There is a nice, steep-ish kicker 1.5km from the line, then a lull, and a more gradual ascent for the last 600m to the finish line. I think it's going to make for some great racing.

Just done Rolling Highlands and then and went and did the gravel climb (north side) and the crit circuit (might not have done that the right way round)

The climb is fine, it's 1.6km and peaks at 13%. The crit circuit has a couple of nasty ramps, think they hit 7% or 8%.

It's a tiny world, I did just under 16 miles and covered all roads, some both directions due to doing the Rolling Highlands routes, looks good for racing.

All sounds really fun, a lot like Yorkshire but not quite as brutal. Hope it gets used more often.

By the way, @Legs, there will be a 6am slot for this: https://www.flammerougeracing.com/

 

[Legs]

By the way, @Legs, there will be a 6am slot for this: https://www.flammerougeracing.com/

6am is waaay too late for me! That's when the kids get up and need to be set into their breakfast routine...

 

[bridgy]

I used that "W'bal" meter from Sauce on my Tour De Zwift ride last night. It's a gauge that goes from 20 when I suppose you're meant to be fully refreshed (I assume?) to zero when you've got nothing left in the tank.

To be honest I didn't look at it during the race but looking back at the youtube video it was spot on in terms of getting to zero when I got to the top of the Temple Climb - it actually went negative at one point as I got to the top, which again feels relatable!

Not sure what actual use it is or how it would change anything I'd do in a race but quite clever (I still have no idea how it works!)

 

[Peter Salt]

I used that "W'bal" meter from Sauce on my Tour De Zwift ride last night. It's a gauge that goes from 20 when I suppose you're meant to be fully refreshed (I assume?) to zero when you've got nothing left in the tank.

To be honest I didn't look at it during the race but looking back at the youtube video it was spot on in terms of getting to zero when I got to the top of the Temple Climb - it actually went negative at one point as I got to the top, which again feels relatable!

Not sure what actual use it is or how it would change anything I'd do in a race but quite clever (I still have no idea how it works!)

W' is defined in (k)J and W'bal just means W' balance. If yours goes up to 20 that means that Sauce calculated your anaerobic work capacity or, as I call it: 'hypothetical energy tank' to be around 20kj. I'm not sure what the formula for it is, but @alex_cycles probably has it tattooed on his forearm I just know it's based on raw watts from your medium (3-5min?) and longish (15-60min.) efforts. Unlike the tank in your car it can fill back up if you ease off (ride below critical power).

I don't think I'd be using it if I had Sauce. In theory it gives you an objective way of determining how much you have left in the tank, regardless of how you feel - I can see that being useful but also potentially limiting.

Pretty cool when people have it on a stream as you don't have to wonder if they have something left for an attack - you just know.

 

[alex_cycles]

W' is defined in kJ and W'bal just means W prime balance (W is a symbol for work). If yours goes up to 20 that means that Sauce calculated your anaerobic work capacity or, as I call it: 'hypothetical energy tank' to be around 20kj. I'm not sure what the formula for it is, but @alex_cycles probably has it tattooed on his forearm I just know it's based on raw watts from your medium (3-5min?) and longish (15-60min.) efforts.

The W' is worked out from "the area above your CP curve" as far as I know (or something like that)
You can get an idea of yours from your profile page at https://www.zwiftracing.app/
Also if you go to the relevant page for a race you've signed up to, you can see the W' of all your competitors too and even sort by it.
(only really useful to see who's likely to have a lot in the tank).

As far as recharging the tank during a race goes, I've no idea how that works. But I think once you've used your "weebles" it's relatively slow to replenish.

I don't think I'd be using it if I had Sauce. In theory it gives you an objective way of determining how much you have left in the tank, regardless of how you feel - I can see that being useful but also potentially limiting.

Pretty cool when people have it on a stream as you don't have to wonder if they have something left for an attack - you just know.

 

[Peter Salt]

As far as recharging the tank during a race goes, I've no idea how that works. But I think once you've used your "weebles" it's relatively slow to replenish.

I do know quite a bit about how that works as I've seen a looooot of my own graphs. Not really complicated.

Effort above your critical power - tank depletes. Effort below your critical power - tank replenishes. The more over/under CP you go, the quicker the depletion/replenishment. Recovery is very quick early on and then tapers off - i.e. If you spend yourself and then drop down to zone 2, first 60s will replenish (e.g.) 10kJ, but the next 60s just 5kJ, the next 60s just 2.5kJ, etc.

My W'bal from the Innsbruckring ZRL race:

My W'bal from ZRL TTT:

[EDIT]: Analysing these after the event is really useful - I think it gives more insight into how hard/smart you raced than any other graph.

You can see, for example, that in Innsbruck I didn't go all out on the Legsnapper - I left a decent chunk of energy in the tank for the subsequent sprint - which in hindsight was a good move. I don't deplete myself until the very end.

As for TTT, you can clearly see where we went from 3-man pulls until the KOM to all-team pulls. However, you can also see that over time my tank balance actually increases - means I could have done longer pulls then I did.

 

[bridgy]

If yours goes up to 20 that means that Sauce calculated your anaerobic work capacity or, as I call it: 'hypothetical energy tank' to be around 20kj.

Thanks for the info @Peter Salt and @alex_cycles

Peter - actually reading into it, Sauce just defaults to 20kj for the w'bal meter but you can manually change it. So what figure would I use if I wanted to do this - the "W" figure seen on my profile on Zwift racing App which shows as 25781? Thanks.

 

[Peter Salt]

Thanks for the info @Peter Salt and @alex_cycles

Peter - actually reading into it, Sauce just defaults to 20kj for the w'bal meter but you can manually change it. So what figure would I use if I wanted to do this - the "W" figure seen on my profile on Zwift racing App which shows as 25781? Thanks.

I don't know what the formula is, but Golden Cheetah (what I use) has a built-in estimator:

If you want to give me some numbers, I can tell you what it says. But I suspect what Alex linked must use the same algorithm - it's probably in a peer-reviewed paper somewhere.

 

[bridgy]

I don't know what the formula is, but Golden Cheetah (what I use) has a built-in estimator:

View attachment 676592

If you want to give me some numbers, I can tell you what it says. But I suspect what Alex linked must use the same algorithm - it's probably in a peer-reviewed paper somewhere.

Well https://www.zwiftracing.app/ has all those figures (based on best efforts over the last 90 days) and a "W" figure of 25781 so I'm assuming it's that figure I should put into sauce for my "W"

 

[alex_cycles]

Well https://www.zwiftracing.app/ has all those figures (based on best efforts over the last 90 days) and a "W" figure of 25781 so I'm assuming it's that figure I should put into sauce for my "W"

That's what I'd use. I've looked at it on the pre-race lineups recently and the more "sprinty" people tend to have a high figure (high 20s or 30+), but it isn't black and white.

This article is often quoted in cycling geek circles as authoritative regarding CP/W'
https://www.highnorth.co.uk/articles/critical-power-calculator

 

[alex_cycles]

Rolling Highlands recon vid for race 6 ZRL. I know a lot of us are going to ride it today, but for anyone else, here it is...


View: https://youtu.be/wwwAYmBxtrg

 

[Peter Salt]

Well https://www.zwiftracing.app/ has all those figures (based on best efforts over the last 90 days) and a "W" figure of 25781 so I'm assuming it's that figure I should put into sauce for my "W"

In my case, the two pretty much align so I think it should be fine.