Zwift Chat

[berty bassett]

Not sure the blogger knows you, so I doubt it.

Obviously I was on about the timing of your post rather than the content
As for the content it was interesting reading and I can see that it is appealing for some people to do , depending on what mentality they are bringing to Zwift
I think some only want to win medals by whatever means they can whether by cheating or being very tactical
Others just try to get the best workout they can produce and results are secondary
Tues night I decided to enter the B simply because it was flattish and I know I struggle on flats , I wanted to race against people I know and enjoy racing with in the knowledge that there was little chance of beating them
I was dq as I thought I might be even though I was soundly beaten but it was worth it for the workout
Personally I can’t see the point of holding back , do that enough at my / our age and all of a sudden you have lost that little edge you have
If it had been a mass start I would have stayed where I was put as I would have been riding with mates
I think the maths in my case is slightly wrong but I live with it and get round it the best I can while still trying the best I can
I will continue to try my hardest and ride with people who I know are trying their hardest and have a laugh about the results at the end whoever wins
I would really like to join a cc team but with the maths being askew (IMO) I don’t know the work around

 

[berty bassett]

I’ve tried to develop an ‘ignorance is bliss’ type attitude towards other people on zwift. It’s helped immensely by the fact I genuinely trust all the guys on here who I come up against on a weekly basis. I never check people’s stats on zp to see if they’re cheating. It’s personal preffeeence of course. But if you don’t know, it can’t wind you up maybe?

Someone actually pm’d me a few nights ago to say how thin my zwift avatar has become 😄. I didn’t take it personally. I think it’s natural maybe if someone is doing ok to take a closer look. In my case I try to keep my zwift weight higher than my real weight. And I go hard as I can in the races. Just because I’m trying to get as fit as possible really. But people are free to try as hard or as little as they want as far as I’m concerned. The guys who win the sprints in the tdf don’t put their noses in front until the last 500 meters or whatever. No one slags them off!

View attachment 548862
(Zwift weight 76kg) I’m weighing myself a few times a week at the moment because I’m trying to get an understanding of portion sizes, and my diet in general vs how much I’m burning.

With you on the weight thing
I put a weight of just over 10st in Zwift
I haven’t been near this weight for quite a while and am a fair bit underweight , but leave it as it is because it makes for a harder workout

 

[bobinski]

I’ve tried to develop an ‘ignorance is bliss’ type attitude towards other people on zwift. It’s helped immensely by the fact I genuinely trust all the guys on here who I come up against on a weekly basis. I never check people’s stats on zp to see if they’re cheating. It’s personal preffeeence of course. But if you don’t know, it can’t wind you up maybe?

Someone actually pm’d me a few nights ago to say how thin my zwift avatar has become 😄. I didn’t take it personally. I think it’s natural maybe if someone is doing ok to take a closer look. In my case I try to keep my zwift weight higher than my real weight. And I go hard as I can in the races. Just because I’m trying to get as fit as possible really. But people are free to try as hard or as little as they want as far as I’m concerned. The guys who win the sprints in the tdf don’t put their noses in front until the last 500 meters or whatever. No one slags them off!

View attachment 548862
(Zwift weight 76kg) I’m weighing myself a few times a week at the moment because I’m trying to get an understanding of portion sizes, and my diet in general vs how much I’m burning.

Get yourself checked out -you may have worms 👍😉😁

 

[bobinski]

Obviously I was on about the timing of your post rather than the content
As for the content it was interesting reading and I can see that it is appealing for some people to do , depending on what mentality they are bringing to Zwift
I think some only want to win medals by whatever means they can whether by cheating or being very tactical
Others just try to get the best workout they can produce and results are secondary
Tues night I decided to enter the B simply because it was flattish and I know I struggle on flats , I wanted to race against people I know and enjoy racing with in the knowledge that there was little chance of beating them
I was dq as I thought I might be even though I was soundly beaten but it was worth it for the workout
Personally I can’t see the point of holding back , do that enough at my / our age and all of a sudden you have lost that little edge you have
If it had been a mass start I would have stayed where I was put as I would have been riding with mates
I think the maths in my case is slightly wrong but I live with it and get round it the best I can while still trying the best I can
I will continue to try my hardest and ride with people who I know are trying their hardest and have a laugh about the results at the end whoever wins
I would really like to join a cc team but with the maths being askew (IMO) I don’t know the work around

For WRTL TTT at least the team is mixed cat so may be possible.

 

[bridgy]

I’ve tried to develop an ‘ignorance is bliss’ type attitude towards other people on zwift. It’s helped immensely by the fact I genuinely trust all the guys on here who I come up against on a weekly basis. I never check people’s stats on zp to see if they’re cheating. It’s personal preffeeence of course. But if you don’t know, it can’t wind you up maybe?

Someone actually pm’d me a few nights ago to say how thin my zwift avatar has become 😄. I didn’t take it personally. I think it’s natural maybe if someone is doing ok to take a closer look. In my case I try to keep my zwift weight higher than my real weight. And I go hard as I can in the races. Just because I’m trying to get as fit as possible really. But people are free to try as hard or as little as they want as far as I’m concerned. The guys who win the sprints in the tdf don’t put their noses in front until the last 500 meters or whatever. No one slags them off!

View attachment 548862
(Zwift weight 76kg) I’m weighing myself a few times a week at the moment because I’m trying to get an understanding of portion sizes, and my diet in general vs how much I’m burning.

I'm torn between congratulating you on your weight loss - based on how tall you are you must now be as skinny as that avatar! - and being careful not to encourage some kind of eating disorder! Seriously though, well done - no loss of power either - if anything it's going up!

 

[bridgy]

If Sandbagging is entering a lower category in order to win when ZwiftPower says you should be in a higher category, then Cruising (at least this is the definition this guy uses) is taking it easy so that ZwiftPower doesn't bump you up to the category you SHOULD be in, so that you can carry on winning races at the easier category.

What Steverob says. allowing yourself to drop into a lower category than your true ability, like me allowing my performance stats to wash out and drop into C or D races, then managing your efforts in the race to make sure your 20min wkg doesn’t go above the cat limit.
Interesting blog site.

Ah OK, thanks guys. I've read a bit more on the blog - I can see the guy's point. No one can really argue that Zwift's system (or lack of system) for category enforcement is pretty rubbish, and this spoils racing for many people. I suspect it's more of a problem in Cat D and C than it is where I am in B. I'm kind of top 25% of Cat B level I guess, which means I can rarely win or podium in a race anyway - there may be some Cat A's "cruising" in B races I suppose but I think that would be a lot harder than a B doing that in C or D for example. Also, even if they are, I would still get beaten by the best genuine Cat B's most of the time (particularly as I can't sprint for toffee!).

Also my thoughts on it are there are SOOO many ways that Zwift is potentially not a fair playing field that if I let it bother me too much I just wouldn't bother - but I do enjoy the racing even though I know this, and it keeps me fit so that's good. I mean, there's really no way to effectively police weight and height for a start. And then even putting those aside, probably a much bigger issue is trainer accuracy. We have no idea what trainers other people are using - if I decided to go back to using my Bkool I would be a comfortable Cat A rider (or perhaps start Cruising in B and winning some races...hmmm 🤔!)

So I tend to agree with what Tommy said - I would like to see things improve - maybe the w/kg Cats replaced or enhanced by a results based category system for example - but I'm not going to stress too much about it or change what I'm doing. I accept that I might be saying different if I was trying to race in Cat D or perhaps even C though

 

[IrishAl]

I’ve tried to develop an ‘ignorance is bliss’ type attitude towards other people on zwift. It’s helped immensely by the fact I genuinely trust all the guys on here who I come up against on a weekly basis. I never check people’s stats on zp to see if they’re cheating. It’s personal preffeeence of course. But if you don’t know, it can’t wind you up maybe?

Someone actually pm’d me a few nights ago to say how thin my zwift avatar has become 😄. I didn’t take it personally. I think it’s natural maybe if someone is doing ok to take a closer look. In my case I try to keep my zwift weight higher than my real weight. And I go hard as I can in the races. Just because I’m trying to get as fit as possible really. But people are free to try as hard or as little as they want as far as I’m concerned. The guys who win the sprints in the tdf don’t put their noses in front until the last 500 meters or whatever. No one slags them off!

View attachment 548862
(Zwift weight 76kg) I’m weighing myself a few times a week at the moment because I’m trying to get an understanding of portion sizes, and my diet in general vs how much I’m burning.

Jeepers...some warning of bare feet would have been welcome...I nearly choked on my cornflakes 🤢 😂

I get what the guy is saying. It would be like Mark Cavendish languishing in the Bs / Cs / Ds. Winning sprints to his hearts content and never getting the upgrade.

My own style is to try to win every race, if that means hiding in the bunch then so be it as I don’t see the point in attacking off the front burning matches only to get reeled in. I will however try to make it hard for opponents by pushing on the front at the right moment - short ramps for example.

 

[Whorty]

What Steverob says. allowing yourself to drop into a lower category than your true ability, like me allowing my performance stats to wash out and drop into C or D races, then managing your efforts in the race to make sure your 20min wkg doesn’t go above the cat limit.
Interesting blog site.

Yep, this. What I found 'funny' or 'sad', can't work out which one, is that someone feels the need to encourage mass manipulation of the rules in order to force Zwift to implement a more fair solution.

We all see sandbagging as it's so obvious when a B races in C (for e.g.) but the cruising one is less easy to spot even though we know it happens. If Zwift want to be taken seriously for racing then they really should try to fix the categories before it gets out of hand.

Maybe when I race again there will be something in place ..... or maybe not

 

[Whorty]

Obviously I was on about the timing of your post rather than the content
As for the content it was interesting reading and I can see that it is appealing for some people to do , depending on what mentality they are bringing to Zwift
I think some only want to win medals by whatever means they can whether by cheating or being very tactical
Others just try to get the best workout they can produce and results are secondary
Tues night I decided to enter the B simply because it was flattish and I know I struggle on flats , I wanted to race against people I know and enjoy racing with in the knowledge that there was little chance of beating them
I was dq as I thought I might be even though I was soundly beaten but it was worth it for the workout
Personally I can’t see the point of holding back , do that enough at my / our age and all of a sudden you have lost that little edge you have
If it had been a mass start I would have stayed where I was put as I would have been riding with mates
I think the maths in my case is slightly wrong but I live with it and get round it the best I can while still trying the best I can
I will continue to try my hardest and ride with people who I know are trying their hardest and have a laugh about the results at the end whoever wins
I would really like to join a cc team but with the maths being askew (IMO) I don’t know the work around

Definitely not aimed at you Lee as I didn't even know you had been in the race. My timing to posting up here directly coincided with when I saw the link in FB.

I just thought it might be an interesting read as it relates to Zwift racing. Each of us will take something from the blog I think.

 

[<Tommy>]

With you on the weight thing
I put a weight of just over 10st in Zwift
I haven’t been near this weight for quite a while and am a fair bit underweight , but leave it as it is because it makes for a harder workout

I know you do. And it always gives me a foreboding feeling for when I have to try and keep up with you climbing in the real world

 

[<Tommy>]

Jeepers...some warning of bare feet would have been welcome...I nearly choked on my cornflakes 🤢 😂

I get what the guy is saying. It would be like Mark Cavendish languishing in the Bs / Cs / Ds. Winning sprints to his hearts content and never getting the upgrade.

My own style is to try to win every race, if that means hiding in the bunch then so be it as I don’t see the point in attacking off the front burning matches only to get reeled in. I will however try to make it hard for opponents by pushing on the front at the right moment - short ramps for example.

😄 Yea apologies. It did occur to me it was a little early to expose my mangled feet to the world! I’ve broken both my big toes enough times that I can’t scrunch them anymore.

 

[<Tommy>]

I'm torn between congratulating you on your weight loss - based on how tall you are you must now be as skinny as that avatar! - and being careful not to encourage some kind of eating disorder! Seriously though, well done - no loss of power either - if anything it's going up!

I should thank you really. You push me to the limit so often it’s how we ended up here. For what it’s worth I don’t look quite as malnourished as my avatar 😄

 

[steverob]

Ah OK, thanks guys. I've read a bit more on the blog - I can see the guy's point. No one can really argue that Zwift's system (or lack of system) for category enforcement is pretty rubbish, and this spoils racing for many people. I suspect it's more of a problem in Cat D and C than it is where I am in B.

Definitely a much bigger thing going further down the categories. Racing in D without using ZwiftPower LIVE view was basically impossible as anywhere up to 50% of the field were not legitimate challengers and even since I've moved to C, while it's maybe not as bad, it's still pretty ropey - after all out of 81 finishers on ZP this Tuesday, we had 11 B's and even 2 A's pushing the pace in our pen. But "cruising" as he puts it is a little harder to spot immediately, but we all know it when we see it - that guy who wins every week and always comes in just under the category limits, but never seems to have to push all that hard to do so.

For a while I thought that maybe some others would think I was a cruiser as I was regularly getting on the D podium and my 20 mins FTP was always about 2.48 w/kg, while my whole ride average was way below that (~2.3). But with me, it just so happened to be the case that 2.5 actually was my upper limit! I'd go all out for maybe 15-20 minutes to drop all the riders apart from the other top D's (and the sandbaggers), then once we'd got a big lead, we'd just draft at ~2.2 and wait for the final sprint. Eventually I got that little bit better and started hitting just over 2.5 at my best and so got pushed up to C - ironically while I'm still hitting the same slightly higher watts now, because I've put on 3-4 kgs in the past month, I've dropped back to 2.48 again!

 

[Whorty]

Definitely a much bigger thing going further down the categories. Racing in D without using ZwiftPower LIVE view was basically impossible as anywhere up to 50% of the field were not legitimate challengers and even since I've moved to C, while it's maybe not as bad, it's still pretty ropey - after all out of 81 finishers on ZP this Tuesday, we had 11 B's and even 2 A's pushing the pace in our pen. But "cruising" as he puts it is a little harder to spot immediately, but we all know it when we see it - that guy who wins every week and always comes in just under the category limits, but never seems to have to push all that hard to do so.

For a while I thought that maybe some others would think I was a cruiser as I was regularly getting on the D podium and my 20 mins FTP was always about 2.48 w/kg, while my whole ride average was way below that (~2.3). But with me, it just so happened to be the case that 2.5 actually was my upper limit! I'd go all out for maybe 15-20 minutes to drop all the riders apart from the other top D's (and the sandbaggers), then once we'd got a big lead, we'd just draft at ~2.2 and wait for the final sprint. Eventually I got that little bit better and started hitting just over 2.5 at my best and so got pushed up to C - ironically while I'm still hitting the same slightly higher watts now, because I've put on 3-4 kgs in the past month, I've dropped back to 2.48 again!

Your D numbers are like my C numbers - I have to push my max for the whole race to hit close to C limits but however hard I try I just can't get into B numbers. At 75kg in C I'm always at a disadvantage as I can only push 220 ish watts over the race but there are the 'cruisers' weighing 95+kg who are pushing 300+ watts. On the flats these guys can roll along well in their limits but I'm in the red just hanging on, then we get to the hills and they are easily pushing 3.2 w/kg and pull away whilst I'm popping as I've been in the red the last 20 minutes. At sprint time I have zero chance.

From a workout angle I'm fine as I get a really good session and I'm quite chuffed if I'm only dropped in the final sprint, but for those who want to race seriously I can see why this irritates them. A points based system may be the way to resolve this and bring Zwift in line with the real world; at least that's what those who know more than me are saying.

 

[mjd1988]

It is interesting to think about zwift and how true it is. My trainer wasn't calibrated properly for the last wee while and I reckon that was 10/20 watts right there. But I don't honestly know if the calibrated power is even the right one as kickr snap may well run high (maybe very high). I suspect I might be losing some watts through my 90s 9 speed downtube shifters bike with chain rubbing against battered derailleur so hoping it evens out somewhere!

I'm going for a monthly weight check to try and make it a bit more objective as I'm definitely in the "I'm not updating my weight right after Christmas" camp - although even then you weigh less in the morning - funny enough if I weighed myself at heaviest if anything it would probably push me into C cat where I'd be smashing it, but I'm enjoying getting pasted in B at the moment.

I do think sandbagging is a special kind of annoying though (meaning the people who blow apart a race for everyone, plenty of people don't know what cat they are or aren't going for the win). I can suspend belief for the rest but when you see someone in C or D cat pushing 5/6w per kg...