Yet another elderly person killed by a cyclist

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Bristolian

Senior Member
Location
Bristol, UK
For context, 70 people are killed yearly by cattle, about three by cyclists.

I fail to see the relevance of this comment. Cattle do not wantonly and furiously ride bicycles. This is not a game of top trumps, a real person (with friends and family) died because a cyclist failed to exercise sufficient caution. If it was your 82 year old grand-mother I doubt you'd have posted that.

Personally, I hope they throw the book at him and if found guilty he gets a stiff custodial sentence. Perhaps then the wanna-be peloton fraternity will start to take note and calm themselves down.
 

albion

Guest
 

wafter

I like steel bikes and I cannot lie..
Location
Oxford
Can't find it now but there's an article in the Oxford Mail that quotes a statement from a doctor who witnessed it; painting a hugely different picture to the usual media narrative.

In a nutshell, cyclist approached from behind at just above walking pace, sounded bell (IIRC), woman moved out of the way then back into his path, he brushed her, she fell forwards, failed to react to break her fall and hit her head.

The charge and majority media coverage imply both wrecklessness and excess speed on the part of the rider, while the account above suggests a fall precipitated by light contact, that could equally have resulted from contact with another pedestrian.

Obviously a sad case regardless, however as usual seems to have been spun to support the usual anti-cyclist agenda.
 
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Slick

Guru
Can't find it now but there's an article in the Oxford Mail that quotes a statement from a doctor who witnessed it; painting a hugely different picture to the usual media narrative.

In a nutshell, cyclist approached from behind at just above walking pace, sounded bell (IIRC), woman moved out of the way then back into his path, he brushed her, she fell forwards, failed to react to break her fall and hit her head.

The charge and majority media coverage implies both wrecklessness and excess speed on the part of the rider, while the account above suggests a fall precipitated by light contact, that could equally have resulted from contact with another pedestrian.

Obviously a sad case regardless, however as usual seems to have been spun to support the usual anti-cyclist agenda.

2 sides to every story.
 

Punkawallah

Über Member
I fail to see the relevance of this comment. Cattle do not wantonly and furiously ride bicycles. This is not a game of top trumps, a real person (with friends and family) died because a cyclist failed to exercise sufficient caution. If it was your 82 year old grand-mother I doubt you'd have posted that.

Personally, I hope they throw the book at him and if found guilty he gets a stiff custodial sentence. Perhaps then the wanna-be peloton fraternity will start to take note and calm themselves down.

While you are of course entitled to your opinion, I of course am entitled to discard it.
 

Dogtrousers

Kilometre nibbler
Personally, I hope they throw the book at him and if found guilty he gets a stiff custodial sentence. Perhaps then the wanna-be peloton fraternity will start to take note and calm themselves down.

Peloton? The incident was on a towpath and involved one cyclist. I hardly think high speed pelotons, calm or otherwise, have any relevance.

And the case is ongoing so we don't know the ins and outs of it.
 

Slick

Guru
Found a link to the eyewitness account mentioned in my previous post - not quite as I remember but again, hardly sounds like the cyclist was riding wrecklessly.

Thanks for posting the link, but it just confirms to me that innocence or guilt is sometimes measured by the experiences of the witnesses.

If there were no other witnesses to this case the liklihood is, the narrative would probably remain as killer cyclist strikes. The fact there was an independent witness is great, but then add to the fact his medical experience and his awareness of common issues arising when we get older and all of a sudden, we are almost hovering on victim blaming.

I understand the court will take a view on it, but I sometimes feel that the process is fundamentally flawed.

Either way, tragic end to a life and does still highlight to me my responsibility to pedestrians on shared paths.
 

Dogtrousers

Kilometre nibbler
Either way, tragic end to a life and does still highlight to me my responsibility to pedestrians on shared paths.
My thoughts too.

Shared paths are not easy places to cycle, what with kids, elderly, scooterists, dogs and so on.

Towpaths are particularly bad. I don't like cycling on them because I find negotiating pedestrians a pain, and I don't like walking on them because I find negotiating cyclists a pain. As for fishermen (and women) ...
 
Can't find it now but there's an article in the Oxford Mail that quotes a statement from a doctor who witnessed it; painting a hugely different picture to the usual media narrative.

In a nutshell, cyclist approached from behind at just above walking pace, sounded bell (IIRC), woman moved out of the way then back into his path, he brushed her, she fell forwards, failed to react to break her fall and hit her head.

The charge and majority media coverage imply both wrecklessness and excess speed on the part of the rider, while the account above suggests a fall precipitated by light contact, that could equally have resulted from contact with another pedestrian.

Obviously a sad case regardless, however as usual seems to have been spun to support the usual anti-cyclist agenda.

WOW - that makes a difference

I ride on towpaths a lot and hence have a lot of interactions with people walking

Most are just fine - I ring my bell - which is a ding-a-ling-a-ling type- and slow down before I get close to then - distance depends on age, speed and whether or not they have a dog with them

If I get no reaction then I slow down more and ring again - after a reasonable gap
still no reaction I drop to their speed - or less- and say "excuse me"

eventually I generally get past!

There have been a couple of times where I have nearly hit someone - one was a few days ago

bloke was wlaking along the middle of the path - path was 6 foot or so wide and tarmac - so wide enough to pass if he moved over a bit
rang my bell and he moved to his left
so I started to head for the right to pass slowly

just as I got very close he moved back to the middle blocking me and I had to slam the brakes on

turned out he has earphone on that couldn;t be seen (I do look but some are not so easy to see) and hadn;t heard me
presumably he had just moved to his left at random and would have done so if I was not there - but I took it as a sign he had heard me and was making room

and a couple of "incident" with older ladies (never men they act differently) have been so engrossed in their chatting that they have not heard at all
in one case there were several yards of grass on teh right so I went round - again slowly and after ringing my bell twice - 8-10 feet clear and as I passed she screamed and grabbed her friend while saying "Oh My GOD!!!
I would bet she told everyone about this reckless cyclist who passed them on a footpath at high speed - it was 8 mph!

People are weird - and if you are in charge of a faster jump of metal then you have to avoid people travelling on less deadly machines - or no machines at all



oh - and people may act weird - dogs and kids are even worse and need even more care!
 

T4tomo

Legendary Member
tragic accident, just shows it doesn't take much to kill a frail old lady if she falls badly.

I avoid tow paths like the plague, a lot of the surfaces are bad, often lots of people so progress is stop start, and a big wet smelly run off area at one side if it all goes wrong.

It also goes to show the need to take extra care around the more vulnerable. Whether that is motorists around cyclists / pedestrians or cyclists around pedestrians, especially if they are elderly.

So from the physician we have increased vulnerability due to age with specifics of the reflex he mentioned. We have contact, although exact details of this the physician can not be precise as to what on the bike or cyclist contacted the deceased. The physician did not mention hearing a bell and only knew about the cyclist as he passed and hit the pedestrian.

Criminal or civil negligence is not clearly evidenced either way I think. However from a purely personal POV I feel that when I often rode on a canal towpath I took a lot of care and attention when approaching pedestrians. I have walked my bike past many a pedestrian, dog, child, etc. I do have the view that if I did hit a pedestrian my default view is my fault. I guess that is preesumed liability but my own conscience version of it.
 

wafter

I like steel bikes and I cannot lie..
Location
Oxford
Thanks for posting the link, but it just confirms to me that innocence or guilt is sometimes measured by the experiences of the witnesses.

If there were no other witnesses to this case the liklihood is, the narrative would probably remain as killer cyclist strikes. The fact there was an independent witness is great, but then add to the fact his medical experience and his awareness of common issues arising when we get older and all of a sudden, we are almost hovering on victim blaming.

I understand the court will take a view on it, but I sometimes feel that the process is fundamentally flawed.

Either way, tragic end to a life and does still highlight to me my responsibility to pedestrians on shared paths.
Absolutely - even as someone who attempts critical thinking and obviously is pro-cycling, the initial / prevailing presentation of this case had prejudiced me against the rider.. yet I don't recall reading any witness statements that support the idea that he was riding dangerously; so this opinion was formed entirely from the offence he's been charged with and the way it's been handled in the media.

As an aside I recall reading about another unrelated situation some years ago in a paper I'd otherwise trusted about a subject I was very familiar.. only to find that the article was total rubbish - factually inaccurate and sensationalist.. yet had I had no prior knowledge I'd have swallowed it without question.

Just goes to show how subjective things can be at best, and how appallingly some news sources actually do at reporting the news objectively at worst; be that through incompetence or intentional bias.


WOW - that makes a difference

I ride on towpaths a lot and hence have a lot of interactions with people walking

Most are just fine - I ring my bell - which is a ding-a-ling-a-ling type- and slow down before I get close to then - distance depends on age, speed and whether or not they have a dog with them

If I get no reaction then I slow down more and ring again - after a reasonable gap
still no reaction I drop to their speed - or less- and say "excuse me"

eventually I generally get past!

There have been a couple of times where I have nearly hit someone - one was a few days ago

bloke was wlaking along the middle of the path - path was 6 foot or so wide and tarmac - so wide enough to pass if he moved over a bit
rang my bell and he moved to his left
so I started to head for the right to pass slowly

just as I got very close he moved back to the middle blocking me and I had to slam the brakes on

turned out he has earphone on that couldn;t be seen (I do look but some are not so easy to see) and hadn;t heard me
presumably he had just moved to his left at random and would have done so if I was not there - but I took it as a sign he had heard me and was making room

and a couple of "incident" with older ladies (never men they act differently) have been so engrossed in their chatting that they have not heard at all
in one case there were several yards of grass on teh right so I went round - again slowly and after ringing my bell twice - 8-10 feet clear and as I passed she screamed and grabbed her friend while saying "Oh My GOD!!!
I would bet she told everyone about this reckless cyclist who passed them on a footpath at high speed - it was 8 mph!

People are weird - and if you are in charge of a faster jump of metal then you have to avoid people travelling on less deadly machines - or no machines at all



oh - and people may act weird - dogs and kids are even worse and need even more care!

It does and I agree; having had very similar experiences to you and having dealt with them with a very similar approach.

I sometimes won't use my bell if there's enough room, I'm travelling slowly and the person I'm passing is consistent in their position as it makes me feel a bit awkward / self important.. but it still sees a lot of use and I've settled on a cheery two-successive rings from a long way out as the most audible and least threatening way of alerting people to my presence.

It's not often that I've had to pass people that I've tried but failed to alert - I find joggers with earphones are the worst and by the point where I've slowed right down and am now following them at their speed - having rung the bell and shouted repeatedly - I think the burden of responsibility is then on them and I don't feel bad in slowly pushing past.

I had a similar experience to you years ago when I ran over a dry twig as I slowly passed a woman; causing her to nearly jump out of her skin, while her husband reacted as if I'd just ridden past and casually lopped off her head.. which was utterly ridiculous to the point of making me laugh out loud at their utterly disproportionate reactions.

I'm fine with alerting people to my presence and giving way to pedestrians in shared spaces; but by the same token anyone out wandering in the world has some responsibility to themselves and others to be present and aware of their surroundings.


tragic accident, just shows it doesn't take much to kill a frail old lady if she falls badly.

I avoid tow paths like the plague, a lot of the surfaces are bad, often lots of people so progress is stop start, and a big wet smelly run off area at one side if it all goes wrong.

Indeed.

Conversely I really love my commute on the tow path, which has seen 2-2.5k miles covered on this route in the last year and usually encompasses the very stretch of river this incident occurred on.

I do agree with your points to a point, however I'm really lucky to have a really well surfaced, usually-just-about-wide-enough path (although diminishingly so as the hedge grows out over the summer) on this route.

Yes, sometimes pedestrians are a pain for the obstruction / hazard they can present.. however I always try to be respectful and considerate and generally find this is reciprocated, and has led to some really nice little interactions with people :smile:

That said this incident is terrifying in how it illustrates how a tiny accident wth a very unfortunate outcome could leave you facing entirely unfair accusations and trial by media..
 
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