SkipdiverJohn
Deplorable Brexiteer
- Location
- London
Christ, look at the timings! Almost two full minutes ahead of the next fastest rider, and the rest of the pack all bunched together over forty seconds.
Would anyone be interested in a 1970's Alan shorter TT bike?
- Thread starter Pink Nigel Dean
- Start date
Page may contain affiliate links. Please see terms for details.
Christ, look at the timings! Almost two full minutes ahead of the next fastest rider, and the rest of the pack all bunched together over forty seconds.
biggs682
Itching to get back on my bike's
- Location
- Northamptonshire
I would be a further 15 minutes longer
SkipdiverJohn
Deplorable Brexiteer
- Location
- London
And you'd still be a quarter of an hour ahead of me!
Those times might not be out of the ordinary by today's standards, but those guys were riding essentially normal drop bar sports bikes without a load of special aero wind tunnel designed components.
biggs682
Itching to get back on my bike's
- Location
- Northamptonshire
Pink Nigel Dean
Active Member
Thanks for this, and with apologies for being a pain, do you have any pics of the forks?
Pink Nigel Dean
Active Member
No worries, but I don't see many similarities between your frame and mine, I'm afraid. As you rightly say, yours is TIG welded whilst mine is fillet brazed, yours appears to have steel dropouts where mine are chromed campagnolo, and the detail at the seat pillar on yours seems to lack the finesse of mine.
There's something out of the ordinary about my frame which I still haven't nailed. Biggs 682 described it as a work of art, and that is how it feels, there's just so much more going on than the average run of the mill 531c. Looking at the detailing where the frame tubes meet, the smoothness of each joint is not achieved by using filler, which would have been the easier way. I stripped the frame back to bare metal when I painted it and that finish is the surface of the braze itself. Someone went to an awful lot of trouble to achieve that.
You are right too about the lack of braze on fittings, which I hope helps to date it. This is the only welded on fitment on the whole frame;
midlife
Guru
Fillet brazing has always been an art and there were quite a few builders that dabbled, Jack Taylor, Bill Phillbrook, Jim Soens, I think most builders did them. All were brass brazed with a fillet. 531 started to come in a variety of flavours starting with 531 SL mid 70's, 531c on the early 80's. Your frame looks to be early 70's judging by the design. Both our dropouts are steel, yours are chrome plated. Are your dropouts the same thickness or do they have a washer brazed on the inside to make a thicker ring?
biggs682
Itching to get back on my bike's
- Location
- Northamptonshire
@Pink Nigel Dean what's the frame number on yours ?
Pink Nigel Dean
Active Member
You clearly know your stuff, and this is very helpful, but raises an anomaly. I believe your dating is spot on, as it clearly had some age when I bought it in the early 80's, but it can't have been 531c if that hadn't been invented then, so it looks like my memory is playing tricks..should have taken a photo.
The dropouts are the same thickness, no washer.
Pink Nigel Dean
Active Member
Your own Shorter, which I've just seen, is very nice indeed, but like all the other examples I have seen it is lugged. Why is mine different, and why can't I find any other lugless Shorter frames apart from the ones built for Alf??
Yours has a frame number under the bottom bracket, but mine doesn't, and I haven't found one anywhere.
biggs682
Itching to get back on my bike's
- Location
- Northamptonshire
Kempstonian
Has the memory of a goldfish
- Location
- Bedford
A very nice bike but, like you, I've never seen a lugless Shorter. Maybe they were 'specials' made just for Alf Engers? He tried to save weight wherever he could, so maybe the lugs had to go. (If so this COULD actually be one of Alf's bikes I suppose if the size is right).
Top of the seat stays doesn't look very Shorterish though.
Top of the seat stays doesn't look very Shorterish though.
DCLane
Found in the Yorkshire hills ...
- Location
- Dewsbury, West Yorkshire
@Pink Nigel Dean - reading through all the "it's not like any Shorter frame I know" type comments, are you sure it's a Shorter and not something else re-sprayed?
Bob Jackson respray frames and then put their logos on, but they're not 'Bob Jackson's. Could yours be similar and you really need the frame number to ID it properly?
Bob Jackson respray frames and then put their logos on, but they're not 'Bob Jackson's. Could yours be similar and you really need the frame number to ID it properly?
