Wireless group sets, Di2 and all that

[jay clock]

I love my new Etap but I believe on Di2 you can change the display on your garmin from a button on the hoods ? That's a neat trick.

correct. you can programme the buttons in the hoods to sweep left and right, jump to home screen, jump to map etc. Only works on Ultegra di2 and assume Dura Ace. The 105 di2 doesn't have it but I will survive!

 

[Bollo]

I had it on my last Di2/Garmin setup. It was kinda neat but used it less that I thought it would. Shimano have also got sniffy about any sort of integration with head units from manufacturers that they view as competitors, so that’s a mark in the nope column from me. One of the valid criticisms of electronic groupsets IMO is the closed and proprietary nature of the various ecosystems, so behaviour like that isn’t exactly moving things forward.

 

[jay clock]

I had it on my last Di2/Garmin setup. It was kinda neat but used it less that I thought it would. Shimano have also got sniffy about any sort of integration with head units from manufacturers that they view as competitors, so that’s a mark in the nope column from me. One of the valid criticisms of electronic groupsets IMO is the closed and proprietary nature of the various ecosystems, so behaviour like that isn’t exactly moving things forward.

i was expecting more hassle getting the di2 to talk to the Garmin.

I think the problem @Bollo has is that he rides so fast, his Bluetooth signal is blown past him and fails to transfer between the Garmin and the groupset

 

[gbs]

Did you decide on what bike?

No, not yet. I am waiting for the new offering from Pearson which will have a new endurance (ie not race oriented) geometry. I have decided that SRAM is to be preferred but that is not a choice that shortens the list of good road bikes.

 

[chris667]

My feeling is anything electronic on a bike is disposable. One change in the design and you won't be able to fix it unless you scour eBay for a part loads of other bike nerds want as well.

My bike for life will have 7 speed shifters. I can fix them myself, and I have my pick of chains. Fabulous quality parts for them are still plentiful and less expensive than all their new equivalents. It will probably be built by Vernon Barker.

 

[DogmaStu]

No, not yet. I am waiting for the new offering from Pearson which will have a new endurance (ie not race oriented) geometry. I have decided that SRAM is to be preferred but that is not a choice that shortens the list of good road bikes.

I have both; Sram Red and Force (road and gravel bikes) and the current Shimano Di2 on another road bike.

To me, Sram is more intuitive to use - I still make the odd mistake with Di2 if I miss the correct lever, especially with gloves.

I also like that the batteries are interchangeable on my road bike and can be charged off the bike.

All that said, Di2 seems smoother, less prone to creeping inaccuracy over time. However, both systems are very easy to fine tune and can be done even while riding with Sram. It's just pressing a small button on the lever and tapping left or right to move the setting incrementally. Servicing is something you can learn yourself by watching a GCN Tech video, it really is simple.

I much prefer my bikes with electronic groupsets to my two manual Ultegra and XTR equipped bikes; electronic is less of a faff, easier to tune, changes smoother, quicker.

None of the 3 main brands in groupsets are bad, ergonomics and which feels best is often the decider.

 

[Alex321]

My feeling is anything electronic on a bike is disposable. One change in the design and you won't be able to fix it unless you scour eBay for a part loads of other bike nerds want as well.

My bike for life will have 7 speed shifters. I can fix them myself, and I have my pick of chains. Fabulous quality parts for them are still plentiful and less expensive than all their new equivalents. It will probably be built by Vernon Barker.

That would generally have been true of most significant upgrades to drivechain components, but the manufacturers have continued producing the previous versions for a good many years.

You can still for instance, but new Dura-Ace 7900 10 speed cassettes, even though that is I think four generations ago, and was originally produced in 2008.

I don't see any reason why in similar fashion, Di2 components will not continue to be produced for several years after a design change comes along.

 

[Ian H]

yes the likes of Hope for example do dot oil and mineral oil version of their calipers and tell you exactly what SRAM Shim and Campag levers they work with incl the di2 versions.

I'm also pretty sure you can take eg an Ultegra Di2 lever and pair it with a 105Di2 mech etc.

You don't however have the range of inter brand compatibility IanH is talking about with (probably*) old mechanical 9 speed and below systems, but that's largely irreverent to the OP and anyone else looking a new bike purchases.
*and indeed non indexed / friction shifting pretty much everything worked with everything, again irrelevant to this thread.

New mechanical 2x11 on the latest bike. I specified a 48/36 chainset amongst other things.

 

[ColinJ]

New mechanical 2x11 on the latest bike. I specified a 48/36 chainset amongst other things.

I like 48/36. I really didn't get on with the 53/39 that used to be on my CAAD5 so I changed to a 48/38/28 triple. I felt that the 38 was still a tad too big so when it wore out I started using a 36 instead. I now do most of my riding on that bike on the 36 tooth middle ring. I only use the big ring when really cracking on, and the 28 for very tough climbs.

 

[footloose crow]

I have a SRAM Force/Rival mix on my Giant Defy purchased in Feb this year and so far on about 1500km including some 100-200k rides. I had the mix because the Rival crankset can have a Quark power meter but on Force or Red you have to have a more expensive spider based power meter which would make replacing the chain ring very expensive. Everything else is Force. The LBS made it easy for me to decide on this mix by offering a better price overall than for a Rival equipped bike - I think they had the components lying around and sales were slow that week.

My experience is that electronic shifting is very nice. A bit like getting an automatic car; at first you worry that it is more complicated, more likely to go wrong and you feel a loss of control. After a while you realise it is actually more durable, doesn't go wrong and is very controllable. The only problem I Have is switching back to my other bikes on mechanical group sets ad remembering how to change gear. My dyslexia doesn't help either.

My battery on the rear derailleur ran out on a ride recently. I hadn't charged it since buying the bike so it was my fault. I switched batteries with the front derailleur which I kept in the small ring and got around the ride fine. It was a hilly ride though so the small cog was fine most of the time. I could have left it in the big ring or just stopped and moved the battery around to change the front but that would have been a bit of faffing. I could carry a spare battery as well but they are 50 quid!

The need to push the left and right button at the same time to shift the front derailleur is sometime cited as a problem as you need both hands on the bike. I have never had a problem with having both hands on the bar at the points where a shift is needed so it hasn't ben an issue.

All the reading and research I did plus talking to friends suggests that long term e-gears are reliable and fixable. But in the unlikely event they do go wrong a long way from home the multi tool and puncture repair kit I carry are not going to be any help. It would need a LBS.

I do really like the Giant Defy. I like my titanium Enigma too. The Defy tends to stay indoors when the weather is crappy or the roads are poor when the tougher Enigma excels. The Defy is faster and maybe a bit smoother, quicker to turn, very reactive.

 

[chris667]

You can still for instance, but new Dura-Ace 7900 10 speed cassettes, even though that is I think four generations ago, and was originally produced in 2008.

If you have something that's gloriously incompatible with anything else, you are depending on Shimano keeping on with the status quo. I wouldn't bet on it, it's not the business model of the cycling industry.

 

[Alex321]

If you have something that's gloriously incompatible with anything else, you are depending on Shimano keeping on with the status quo. I wouldn't bet on it, it's not the business model of the cycling industry.

You are depending on them continuing to support older ranges. And that has been the business model. As I noted above, you can still buy new, components which haven't been "current" for 10 years+.

It is actually in their interest to keep producing them so long as there is demand.

If I were to upgrade my groupset now to 105 Di2 (I'd never get it past the boss, so not happening, but still), I would be very surprised if there were any components in it which I would find difficulty in replacing with new in 15 years time, probably more.

For that matter, the mechanical 105 R7000 series that is currently on it, I would be surprised if there is anything I can't replace in a similar timescale.

 

[T4tomo]

If you have something that's gloriously incompatible with anything else, you are depending on Shimano keeping on with the status quo. I wouldn't bet on it, it's not the business model of the cycling industry.

so on on hand you say be wary of having something that isn't "current" in shimano line up, but on the other you say the best way to be future proof is 7 speed, which hasn't been current for year except on shoot cheap BSO's.

Manufacturers get a good deal of income from selling replacement parts, they don't cut off their noses to spite their faces.

 

[kingrollo]

Love my Di2 - its the older 11 speed. £200 for a replacement shifter when mine sprung a leak is food for thought though.

 

[Alex321]

Love my Di2 - its the older 11 speed. £200 for a replacement shifter when mine sprung a leak is food for thought though.

It was £109 for a replacement for my mechanical (hydraulic disc brake) 105 left Brifter last year - and that was on offer, most places it is around £160. E.g https://www.sigmasports.com/item/Shimano/105-R7020-Double-Hydraulic-STI-Lever-Left/ISJT

So yes it is more, but not ridiculously more for the Di2 ones. In fact looking at the packages of hydraulic lever and caliper from the same site, for 105 the mechanical (7020) is £215, the Di2 (7170) is £222.