Yellow Saddle
Guru
- Location
- Loch side.
Then they won't work either.
Will this calliper /lever combination work?
- Thread starter Salty seadog
- Start date
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Then they won't work either.
davidphilips
Phil Pip
- Location
- Onabike
OP
OP
Salty seadog
Space Cadet...(3rd Class...)
Please expand and offer your recommendations. Would crosstops be better or just go flat bar and conventional.
Yellow Saddle
Guru
- Location
- Loch side.
I really don't know what product will work with your bullhorn bars and dual pivots. It is a troublesome combination. Are your calipers long-reach models? That exacerbates the problem. But, at the end of the day your levers have the wrong pull-ratio. You have to find something that works with your dual-pivot brakes or swap them out for single-pivots and still put up with a sub-optimal brake lever in terms of sturdiness.
You could also convert to a flat bar as you say, and then match your dual-pivots to MTB-style levers designed for road bikes, such as that available from Shimano. Research that, but it may be pricey and linked to gear shifters as well.
I haven't done any installations like that other than a flat-bar Shimano job and that one involved a groupset of perfectly matched parts. I can't be more specific. Someone else with more experience in Frankenbikes must now chip in. Where's @mickle, isn't this his thing?
OP
OP
Salty seadog
Space Cadet...(3rd Class...)
On ta, its single speed so I'm only dealing with brakes. Tektro say those levers I mentioned would Work with cantilever callipers. Maybe they will just work badly.
Yellow Saddle
Guru
- Location
- Loch side.
No, but you don't have cantilevers on there, you have dual pivots. It is a completely different kettle of fish. Where does cantilever come in?
OP
OP
Salty seadog
Space Cadet...(3rd Class...)
I thought they were duel pivot cantilevers.
As I say, I'm a disc brake man, this is the only bike with rims.
Nick Saddlesore
Über Member
- Location
- London
What I've got:
Bike 1. 1960's Claud Butler, used as fixed or single free. Modern Campag Centaur Dual Pivot calipers. Campag pads. Campag levers (aero/non-aero compatible, 1970's?, pre dual-pivot). Works perfectly.
Bike 2. Faggin Pista with bullhorns. Fixed, front brake only. Acor crosstop lever. At present with ancient Gipiemme brake. Awful till I converted to modern Campag pads. Worked fine with Veloce brake.
I just assemble the parts, no extra cable lube, no filing of cable outers.
You have caliper brakes. Cantis are the old style MTB & touring brake, V brakes are similar to cantis, but need specific levers. But you haven't got those.
None of the above will match disc brakes for locking the wheel.
You can put regular drop bar levers on bullhorns. Flat bar levers are often for a narrower diameter bar.
Plenty of people ride bullhorns with modern dp brakes, with or without gears. The problem may be the components, but it may just be the set-up.
Bike 1. 1960's Claud Butler, used as fixed or single free. Modern Campag Centaur Dual Pivot calipers. Campag pads. Campag levers (aero/non-aero compatible, 1970's?, pre dual-pivot). Works perfectly.
Bike 2. Faggin Pista with bullhorns. Fixed, front brake only. Acor crosstop lever. At present with ancient Gipiemme brake. Awful till I converted to modern Campag pads. Worked fine with Veloce brake.
I just assemble the parts, no extra cable lube, no filing of cable outers.
You have caliper brakes. Cantis are the old style MTB & touring brake, V brakes are similar to cantis, but need specific levers. But you haven't got those.
None of the above will match disc brakes for locking the wheel.
You can put regular drop bar levers on bullhorns. Flat bar levers are often for a narrower diameter bar.
Plenty of people ride bullhorns with modern dp brakes, with or without gears. The problem may be the components, but it may just be the set-up.
OP
OP
Salty seadog
Space Cadet...(3rd Class...)
It's a headache alright. Might just swap out to straight bars which will give me a better fighting chance.
When I built my single-speed last year I used these on my bullhorn bars - http://www.wiggle.co.uk/dia-compe-188-reverse-brake-levers/. They are very effective with the dual pivot brakes. They are sold as TT levers.
mickle
innit
- Location
- 53.933606, -1.076131
There are two standards for the amount of cable a lever pulls. It's to do with the dimension of the distance between the brake lever pivot and the cable actuation point (usually the actual cable nipple). Everything was easy before V-Brakes arrived in 1996. Any flat bar brake lever or drop bar brake lever would happily drive a (long or short drop) caliper brake, cantilever (old style short arm), drum brake. SIngle pivot and double pivot caliper brakes are the same in this regard.
When V-brakes came along they used a lot longer brake caliper arm for which the old style lever simply didn't pull enough cable, so they had to redesign the brake lever to suit. The result was a net increase in braking force at the rim - and a lot of confusion. The two standards are not intercompatible.
So there's 'V-brake compatible' and 'everything else'. I don't know what levers go with modern cable brakes, v-brake compaitible I presume (?)
A 'short pull' lever on a v-brake with deliver HUGE braking power but at the cost of really terrible sponginess at the lever and very difficult to adjust a resting position which doesn't also rub on the rim. A v-brake lever on a short pull brake simply won't deliver enough leverage ratio. it'll will feel totally wooden and dangerously short of power.
I think the problem you've got here is a combination of convoluted (internal run) cable which robs power through friction and possibly a cheapo brake caliper. Also - your brake levers, set up as they are (and nice though they are) are arranged to place your strongest fingers at the end with least mechanical advantage. Rotated the other way they make good sense - something not possible on the bars you're using. These levers fitted to a regular flat or lo-rise bar would improve them ergonomically and put fewer bends in the cable - and might be the only change you need to make.
Be aware that there are three or more standards for brake lever bar clamp size, so what bar you buy and where you intend to place them on the bar will decide what clamp size you go for.
When V-brakes came along they used a lot longer brake caliper arm for which the old style lever simply didn't pull enough cable, so they had to redesign the brake lever to suit. The result was a net increase in braking force at the rim - and a lot of confusion. The two standards are not intercompatible.
So there's 'V-brake compatible' and 'everything else'. I don't know what levers go with modern cable brakes, v-brake compaitible I presume (?)
A 'short pull' lever on a v-brake with deliver HUGE braking power but at the cost of really terrible sponginess at the lever and very difficult to adjust a resting position which doesn't also rub on the rim. A v-brake lever on a short pull brake simply won't deliver enough leverage ratio. it'll will feel totally wooden and dangerously short of power.
I think the problem you've got here is a combination of convoluted (internal run) cable which robs power through friction and possibly a cheapo brake caliper. Also - your brake levers, set up as they are (and nice though they are) are arranged to place your strongest fingers at the end with least mechanical advantage. Rotated the other way they make good sense - something not possible on the bars you're using. These levers fitted to a regular flat or lo-rise bar would improve them ergonomically and put fewer bends in the cable - and might be the only change you need to make.
Be aware that there are three or more standards for brake lever bar clamp size, so what bar you buy and where you intend to place them on the bar will decide what clamp size you go for.
OP
OP
Salty seadog
Space Cadet...(3rd Class...)
minininjarob
Active Member
I would agree go with flat bars - you can get some MTB levers with adjustable pull to set them up right (look for Avid levers especially.
Unfortunately all the TT brake levers are good for is gently scrubbing off speed for a corner - the design is generally compromised to make them small light and unobtrusive rather than for stopping power. Lots of flex and movement and not much mechanical advantage.
Here are some road brake levers designed for flat bars and calipers: https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/shimano-tiagra-4700-flat-bar-brake-levers/rp-prod137769
These are a bargain and have adjustable mechanical advantage so you can use them with all sorts of brakes https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/tektro-mt3-0-brake-levers/rp-prod34836 (the adjuster on the front adjusts where the cable sits and therefore the level pull - closer to the bars = less cable pulled which is more for cantilevers, other way for V brakes - something will work along that range for your brakes).
These are the Avid levers (the tektro one are a copy of these really) and probably the nicest ones to get which are adjustable: https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/avid-speed-dial-7-brake-lever/rp-prod22387
Personally I'd have the Avid ones.
Unfortunately all the TT brake levers are good for is gently scrubbing off speed for a corner - the design is generally compromised to make them small light and unobtrusive rather than for stopping power. Lots of flex and movement and not much mechanical advantage.
Here are some road brake levers designed for flat bars and calipers: https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/shimano-tiagra-4700-flat-bar-brake-levers/rp-prod137769
These are a bargain and have adjustable mechanical advantage so you can use them with all sorts of brakes https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/tektro-mt3-0-brake-levers/rp-prod34836 (the adjuster on the front adjusts where the cable sits and therefore the level pull - closer to the bars = less cable pulled which is more for cantilevers, other way for V brakes - something will work along that range for your brakes).
These are the Avid levers (the tektro one are a copy of these really) and probably the nicest ones to get which are adjustable: https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/avid-speed-dial-7-brake-lever/rp-prod22387
Personally I'd have the Avid ones.
