Why did headsets change from 1"to 1 1/8"?

[Yellow Saddle]

https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/specialized-allez-elite-2008-new-headset-needed.221133/

Here's a nice photo for all those doubting Thomases who don't want to acknowledge the way headsets wear and fail because of steerer flex. Have a look at the very last photo and notice how the bearing indentations are concentrated in the fore/aft position. This is with a 1 1/8th steerer but what makes this so interesting is that Spez chose to not use an Aheadset but a simple cup and cone headset that can't compensate by way of plain bearing, for the fore/aft movements.

 

[Blue Hills]

In amongst all the bile that erupted on here, I think I'm still waiting for an answer to this.

>>With regard to tourers with 1 inch headsets do you reckon yellow saddle that they can have issues when front panniers are attached?

It's the only thing I have concerns about.

For all else, I'm fine with my bikes that have 1 inch headsets. I also have 1 1/8th as well.

 

[smutchin]

So what sort of headset are most bikes made with nowadays? I wonder why the industry has not reverted to 1" steerers?

While I was waiting for my train the other day, I was looking over all the bikes locked up on the stands on the platform and was interested to note that substantially more than half had threaded steerers & quill stems. They weren't all old bikes by any means - some looked quite new - but all of the ones with quill stems were cheap bikes (supermarket brands, probably).

I doubt this tells us anything about the relative technical merits of different headsets but may reveal something about the economics of bike manufacturing.

 

[hoopdriver]

Threadless headsets allow manufacturers to use a single standard fork rather than having to have different forks for different frame sizes - a big savings when you are manufacturing en mass.

 

[smutchin]

big savings when you are manufacturing en mass.

Presumably manufacturers of cheap bikes are making bigger savings elsewhere if they haven't made the switch.

 

[hoopdriver]

Presumably manufacturers of cheap bikes are making bigger savings elsewhere if they haven't made the switch.

Limited sizes for one thing.

I don't know where you're seeing these vast numbers of modern bikes with threaded headsets. Certainly not around here

 

[Blue Hills]

While I was waiting for my train the other day, I was looking over all the bikes locked up on the stands on the platform and was interested to note that substantially more than half had threaded steerers & quill stems. They weren't all old bikes by any means - some looked quite new - but all of the ones with quill stems were cheap bikes (supermarket brands, probably).

That's not quite a fair apparent judgement on the tech though is it? I guess most of those bikes were new. A fair few cheaper bikes have 8 or even 7 speed cassettes for the industry has moved on, often for its own reasons. But there is nothing wrong with 7 or 8 speed at all and there would have been many quality older bikes with those cassettes.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

In amongst all the bile that erupted on here, I think I'm still waiting for an answer to this.

>>With regard to tourers with 1 inch headsets do you reckon yellow saddle that they can have issues when front panniers are attached?

It's the only thing I have concerns about.

For all else, I'm fine with my bikes that have 1 inch headsets. I also have 1 1/8th as well.

No.

 

[Blue Hills]

Thanks for the reply yellowsaddle.

In that case I think I'm fine using either.

Can relax.

 

[smutchin]

I don't know where you're seeing these vast numbers of modern bikes with threaded headsets.

And I don't know where you're getting "vast numbers" from.

Like most of the posts in this thread, it was an anecdotal observation. The more observant reader will note that I did actually mention where I saw the bikes: on the station platform. Canterbury West, London-bound, if you want to be more precise.

 

[hoopdriver]

Yes, I knew it was at a station and at stations one typically sees quite large numbers of bicycles. If there were only a few at your station, I am not sure I get your point. If there were many, and you felt as though, anecdotally, this large sample represented a still larger whole, I don't see your trouble with my choice of adjective.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

I was looking over all the bikes locked up on the stands on the platform and was interested to note that substantially more than half had threaded steerers & quill stems. They weren't all old bikes by any means - some looked quite new - but all of the ones with quill stems were cheap bikes (supermarket brands, probably).
I doubt this tells us anything about the relative technical merits of different headsets but may reveal something about the economics of bike manufacturing.

I'm still seeing a majority of bikes with quill stems as well. Almost all budget market MTB's and Hybrids still use threaded headsets, and a lot of them look to be 1" as well. Members of cycling forums, who mostly run relatively expensive bikes that are almost universally fitted with threadless headsets, are not representative of either the "average" cyclist or the type of bike they ride.
All of my bikes have quill stems, and all but one are 1". The sole 1 1/8" example is a 501 frame Raleigh MTB.

Threadless headsets allow manufacturers to use a single standard fork rather than having to have different forks for different frame sizes - a big savings when you are manufacturing en mass.

Buying one size of fork to cut down won't be cheaper if you are manufacturing at scale - you get too much waste material on the smaller size bikes where the extra length isn't required. It's cheaper to optimise the size of the fork to the size of the frame. There are not that many sizes needed anyway. A typical steel hybrid might come in 19 1/2", 21", and 23" for mens, and 18", 19 1/2", and 21" for women. If you've ever studied a typical ladies frame, you'll notice they have taller head tubes for a given frame size - giving higher handlebars.
Normal practice is to size up the ladies head tubes to the next mens size, so you could easily make a range of six bikes but only need three different lengths of fork steerers, possibly only two if you use sloping top tubes on smallest mens frames.

 

[rogerzilla]

The main reason was that they were easier to weld to larger frame tubes. Cannondale 1" head tubes literally used to fall off; they then went to 1 1/4", which never caught on much.

1 1/8" was originally Tioga Avenger (which was very much aimed at MTBs); 1 1/4" was originally (Gary) Fisher Evolution.

IME 1 1/8" conventional headsets, like the old DX ones, still got ruined as easily as 1" headsets. The game-changer was cartridge headsets, which take the flexing motion of the steerer much better. These coincided with threadless systems but the two innovations are unrelated, and threaded cartridge headsets are just as effective as threadless cartridge headsets.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

I've only ever encountered one really notchy threaded headset, and that was on an old Halfords 3-speed that was "indexed" so that you could turn the bars to the next notch and ride round in circles no-hands. That bike, however, had been left out in the open for god knows how many years and everything else on it was either seized or red rusty. The chrome was non-existent, even worse than you'd find on a 1970's Puch - which is saying something.
I have a really simple solution to the problem of keeping the grease distributed in the races - simply pick up the front wheel and turn the bars lock to lock when wheeling the bike around. The balls move far further than in normal "lean steering" where the bars turn very little most of the time.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

The main reason was that they were easier to weld to larger frame tubes. Cannondale 1" head tubes literally used to fall off; they then went to 1 1/4", which never caught on much.

I don't think so.


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