Who needs health and safety

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Slick

Guru
My father was a (marine) ship's engineer on trawlers - even when they were given ear defenders he said they were so basic they just sweated so badly (rotating 8 hour shifts) they took them off - he ended up 90% deaf...

I can only sympathise as I was offshore working in the engine room wasn't unheard off but the sponge plugs would just fall out my ear. Years later the audiologist tells me that my ear canal is very small and I was never going to get that type of protection to work for me. That suited me at the time, mostly because I thought I could walk through walls forever.
 

Slick

Guru
Yes that was often the way. Workers fought against the efforts to keep them safe.

To be fair, mostly out of ignorance.

Any changes like that should always be backed up with a bit of education. That is how changes are welcomed by any workforce.
 

oldwheels

Legendary Member
Location
Isle of Mull
The workforce needs to actually pay attention to instructions for their own safety.
We had vats to clean out and this was best done by a man with a hose and long handled brush. There was danger from CO2 gas so there were very specific instructions regarding clearing the gas and checking as well as having a safety rope and a standby man outside the vat.
One guy could not wait and went in on his own before the gas was cleared so ended up dead.
Instruction was verbal as well as written in large letters very visible but if not adhered to what can you do?
 

Slick

Guru
The workforce needs to actually pay attention to instructions for their own safety.
We had vats to clean out and this was best done by a man with a hose and long handled brush. There was danger from CO2 gas so there were very specific instructions regarding clearing the gas and checking as well as having a safety rope and a standby man outside the vat.
One guy could not wait and went in on his own before the gas was cleared so ended up dead.
Instruction was verbal as well as written in large letters very visible but if not adhered to what can you do?

There is something wrong with the procedure when someone loses their life at work.

The very last line of defence is; Appropriately Supervised, and in your example I would humbly suggest that is where the fault lies or the root cause if you like. Blaming an overkeen worker, just wouldn't cut it in court.

I have another story to tell, but it isn't pleasant.
 

Gwylan

Veteran
Location
All at sea⛵
I worked a couple of years in a chemical works. We used a chemical that is a cyanate.

Wet from college, but desperate for job, I mentioned to my shift manager that it might be dangerous the way we handled it.
He handed me the bucket of it that he was carrying and said "but they don't know that."
They being, my colleagues, production chemists, the labourers and operatives.

Within 2 years we had a system that required us to account for every kilo of the stuff. We used tonnes every week.

By then it was stored in vessels equipped with load cells in an airtight +ve pressure building.
Before any work could be done in the chamber the area had to be declared clean.
Shift chemists had to do this. Now you needed full protective +ve pressure suits. You entered the store chamber through an airlock and tested.
Knitting up, testing and post testing decontamination was up to 3 hours. A fail test meant you stayed there and reran the process.
All this time the shift manager, remember him, is in your earpiece chasing you to get the job done. Even suggesting it could be given things like a non negative failure.
Less well informed colleagues, mates and chums were unwittingly exposed to these risks.
That's why we need elfin safety
Not for the fatuous clip board wielding twerps but to protect honest hard working employees.
 

Drago

Legendary Member
I've got industrial deafness and awarded £2000 in 1989

I got 3 grand from the MOD in the mid 90s. Ear defenders were available for training in t'Army in the 80's, but if we asked for them we were shouted at and called rude names that questioned our masculinity. Its mainly my right ear - I don't really notice it, but the loss of high frequency is measurable on a test.

40 years on I think the attitude to ear defenders in the military is a little more enlightened .
 

Slick

Guru
I got 3 grand from the MOD in the mid 90s. Ear defenders were available for training in t'Army in the 80's, but if we asked for them we were shouted at and called rude names that questioned our masculinity. Its mainly my right ear - I don't really notice it, but the loss of high frequency is measurable on a test.

40 years on I think the attitude to ear defenders in the military is a little more enlightened .

Much the same in construction and oil and gas, and if I'm honest, I played my part in that, but I've just put in an enquiry into one of those no win no fee shysters after @numbnuts post.
 

oldwheels

Legendary Member
Location
Isle of Mull
There is something wrong with the procedure when someone loses their life at work.

The very last line of defence is; Appropriately Supervised, and in your example I would humbly suggest that is where the fault lies or the root cause if you like. Blaming an overkeen worker, just wouldn't cut it in court.

I have another story to tell, but it isn't pleasant.

The buck has to stop somewhere and who is to decide” appropriately supervised”? The onus still IMO come back to the actual worker and if he acts independently of supervision who is to stop him?
It is impossible to have 100% supervision in a small workforce.
I left my last distillery because the new owners ordered me to withdraw what I regarded as essential safety procedure to save one workers wages.

Another example is a windfarm maintenance worker who failed to clip on his safety rope to save himself a couple of minutes when at the top of a tower.
 
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Slick

Guru
The buck has to stop somewhere and who is to decide” appropriately supervised”? The onus still IMO come back to the actual worker and if he acts independently of supervision who is to stop him?
It is impossible to have 100% supervision in a small workforce.
I left my last distillery because the new owners ordered me to withdraw what I regarded as essential safety procedure to save one workers wages.

Another example is a windfarm maintenance worker who failed to clip on his safety rope to save himself a couple of minutes when at the top of a tower.

I agree to a certain extent as per section 7 of the HSWA 1974, but even your last example definitely would be prosecuted because of lack of supervision as happened fairly recently in Grangemouth.
 

Gillstay

Veteran
To be fair, mostly out of ignorance.

Any changes like that should always be backed up with a bit of education. That is how changes are welcomed by any workforce.

Often also because it slowed them down so they earned less money. Just look at the building industry.
 

Slick

Guru
Often also because it slowed them down so they earned less money. Just look at the building industry.

Yes, that is very true. I've often said price work as the ruination of the trade, although I'm aware that some have done it successfully for years. Its a terrible system though that just rewards the roughest elements and corner cutters.
 
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