which wheels: easton (aero or non-aero) or dura-ace

[bonj2]

i'm possibly in the market for some new wheels for my road bike, and i've narrowed it down to:

easton EA90 SLX: http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/Cycle/7/Easton_EA90SLX_Wheel_Set/5360029622/
advantages:
cheapest of the three, and possibly just as good

easton EA90 TT Aero: http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/Cycle/7/Easton_EA90_TT_Aero_Wheel_Set/5360036594/
advantages:
hand-built
probably the most aero of the three
cool-looking in an unsubtle, 'bling' kind of way

dura-ace 7850 CL: http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/Cycle/7/S...arbon_Laminate_Clincher_Wheel_Set/5360030874/
advantages:
lightest
good reviews
cool looking in a subtle kind of way


i don't do time trials, but I do do 15 or 28 mile commutes but which I ride fairly quickly, and I do 30-60 mile rides at weekends.

 

[kyuss]

The Dura Ace for me without a doubt. Good luck trying to find a pair though, they seem to be a little scarce at the moment.

I don't think the rim depth on the Eastons are deep enough to gain any real aero advantage and the Dura Ace are about 200 grams lighter, most of that weight saving being at the rim where it matters.

I've heard very good things about their ride quality (stiff and comfortable) and they look well classy too. I've had my eye on them since they came out and can't wait till till I've saved up enough pennies.

 

[kyuss]

Oh, and if you do get them, ignore the fact it states they should NOT be used with rim tape. Shimano have changed their mind about that.

 

[Chris James]

That's a fair bit of dosh for a commuting / recreational wheel.

Obviously it is your cash and all that.

Personally I am not sure I would be able to tell the difference between these wheels and a decent set of handbuilts (for half the price) and I would certainly be wincing every commute in winter at the sound of road salt being ground into my expensive rims.

But then again I am a skin flint.

 

[Chris James]

Oh, forgot to say, I would just use your existing wheels for the commute and sling on a more deluxe pair for weekend rides (when you may choose not to go out if the conditions are really crap).

 

[shooter560]

Shimano all the way, easily the best all round wheel out there now, nice and light but very stiff. As mentioned if they come with little blue spoke hole plugs bin them and fit a rim tape, all new ones when they hit this country will have tapes not plugs, if you do manage to get a set and have the plugs tell the LBS to contact Madisons for the free rim tape replacements.

Sorry anyone who says you can't tell the difference between these DA's and heavier wheels are really saying I've not tried them and so making a guess, cause once you have tried them and compared them to DA hubs, sapim CX Ray spokes and ceramic open pro's you can tell the difference a mile off, stiffer, lighter, more responsive, faster to spin up and they don't jar you so much when going over lumps and bumps. If I had to pick just one wheel set to last me for all possible uses then it'd be DA.

 

[Chris James]

Sorry anyone who says you can't tell the difference between these DA's and heavier wheels are really saying I've not tried them and so making a guess, cause once you have tried them and compared them to DA hubs, sapim CX Ray spokes and ceramic open pro's you can tell the difference a mile off, stiffer, lighter, more responsive, faster to spin up and they don't jar you so much when going over lumps and bumps. If I had to pick just one wheel set to last me for all possible uses then it'd be DA.

You are quite right, I have never tried the Dura Ace's, although I have no doubts that they are good wheels.

Probably not quite as good as you suggest though, given that being stiffer and not as jarring are pretty much mutually exclusive physical properties due to the stiffness coming predominantly from high spoke tensions and to a lesser extent rim section.

As far as being faster to spin up, that is a function of their lightness. There is a load of guff spoken about rotating weight counting double, but this is only true for the rims (even there it is only 90 odd %). At the hubs for example any weight difference is much the same as being saved on the rest of the bike - or the rider. Also, this weight difference only helps when accelerating and makes no diference whatsoever at constant speed. Finally, how mcuh difference is this really as part of the overall weight of the bike?

I would suggest that telling the difference 'a mile off' is at least partly psychological.

In any case, you are missing my point which was that Bonj stated that he doesn't race or TT. He only does shortish runs at the weekend and most of the use these wheels will get will be for commuting. To me, spending £440 on a pair of commuting wheels wold be totally beyond the pale, but I have a wife, two kids and a mortgage etc

I realise that it is Bonj's money to spend and if he wants the best race wheels he can afford to do his commute on then it is no business of mine.

 

[fossyant]

£440 is good for those wheels - check out the prices of Fulcrum Racing Zero's, R-SYS etc....

Nice wheels - DA would be my choice for a new bike build....or Fulcrum Zeros.

 

[shooter560]

In any case, you are missing my point which was that Bonj stated that he doesn't race or TT. He only does shortish runs at the weekend and most of the use these wheels will get will be for commuting. To me, spending £440 on a pair of commuting wheels wold be totally beyond the pale, but I have a wife, two kids and a mortgage etc

I realise that it is Bonj's money to spend and if he wants the best race wheels he can afford to do his commute on then it is no business of mine.

Yes I did buy mine as race wheels but given that I also have some Zipp 303 tubs, campag wheels and other dura ace wheels as well, I now use the DA 7850CL as my every day wheels as well as racing, for me this means that they are even better value for money. Why if something costs £440 does it mean its too expensive for commuting and weekend wheels? why not treat yourself to some great all round wheels and feel the difference rather than say things like too expensive, Oh and I have 3 kids, a wife, a morgage and 3 cats and I still manage to have money for bikes etc, though I will admit I do not drink so don't go to the pub and piss my money away, nor do I smoke anymore so I'm not blowing what spare cash I have except on bikes, as you say my choice, so please don't knock it

 

[bonj2]

That's a fair bit of dosh for a commuting / recreational wheel.

Obviously it is your cash and all that.

Personally I am not sure I would be able to tell the difference between these wheels and a decent set of handbuilts (for half the price) and I would certainly be wincing every commute in winter at the sound of road salt being ground into my expensive rims.

But then again I am a skin flint.

You are quite right, I have never tried the Dura Ace's, although I have no doubts that they are good wheels.

Probably not quite as good as you suggest though, given that being stiffer and not as jarring are pretty much mutually exclusive physical properties due to the stiffness coming predominantly from high spoke tensions and to a lesser extent rim section.

As far as being faster to spin up, that is a function of their lightness. There is a load of guff spoken about rotating weight counting double, but this is only true for the rims (even there it is only 90 odd %). At the hubs for example any weight difference is much the same as being saved on the rest of the bike - or the rider. Also, this weight difference only helps when accelerating and makes no diference whatsoever at constant speed. Finally, how mcuh difference is this really as part of the overall weight of the bike?

I would suggest that telling the difference 'a mile off' is at least partly psychological.

In any case, you are missing my point which was that Bonj stated that he doesn't race or TT. He only does shortish runs at the weekend and most of the use these wheels will get will be for commuting. To me, spending £440 on a pair of commuting wheels wold be totally beyond the pale, but I have a wife, two kids and a mortgage etc

I realise that it is Bonj's money to spend and if he wants the best race wheels he can afford to do his commute on then it is no business of mine.

oh right, so - few questions:
a) if, say, 60 miles is "only a shortish run", and by implication not enough to justify those nice wheels, then is there a threshold over which it would be justified? If so what is that threshold?
or is it ONLY EVER justified to have wheels of that price if you're in an actual race?
- if the answer to ( is 'no, it doesn't have to be a race', then: why is commuting any different in terms of worthiness for those wheels to a recreational ride?
- is the answer to (B) is 'yes', it does have to be a race', then: what is the maximum 'justifiable' expenditure on a wheel that isn't going to be used for a race, i.e. is "only for commuting and recreational use?"

I'm not seeking your blessing, I'm just curious to know what you see as 'criteria' for justifying spending money on a bike upgrade such as wheels. Or are you just saying that you personally wouldn't buy them, but constructing a pretence that the reason you wouldn't buy them is something other than the fact that you can't afford them/your wife wouldn't let you?

 

[Chris James]

I'm not seeking your blessing, I'm just curious to know what you see as 'criteria' for justifying spending money on a bike upgrade such as wheels. Or are you just saying that you personally wouldn't buy them, but constructing a pretence that the reason you wouldn't buy them is something other than the fact that you can't afford them/your wife wouldn't let you?

Bonj, would you buy a Maserati to drive a handful of miles to your work? Or would you get something a bit more sensible / cheaper?

It seems quite a lot of money to spend on a set of wheels that will help you get to work 20 seconds faster than your existing wheels.

For what it is worth, I can comfortably afford to buy the wheels you are looking at. But I wouldn't feel able to justify buying them to myself as I think there are more important things I could spend my money on - like overpaying my mortgage or increasing the payments into my two kids' Child Trust Funds for example.

The bit of your post I have highlighted in bold is precisely what I am saying. Given your description of your intended use, I'd save my cash.

 

[bonj2]

Bonj, would you buy a Maserati to drive a handful of miles to your work?

if they were £440, yes.

 

[Chris James]

- is the answer to ( is 'yes', it does have to be a race', then: what is the maximum 'justifiable' expenditure on a wheel that isn't going to be used for a race, i.e. is "only for commuting and recreational use?"

Just to labour the point, race wheel are light. They are light for a reason - there is not much material in them. In order for them to spin up to speed then the rims have to be light and in order for them to be stiff then the few spokes they employ are at very high tension and the rims are extruded into a fairly deep box section. Even the non aero ones.

So the upshot is that if you break a spoke then wheels are barely rideable. and what little material that is in the rim is distributed over a large area, meaning that the braking surface is thin walled and will wear out faster than a thicker walled, heavier rim. Especially if it is being ridden in everyday conditions (as is typical on a commute) including lots of road salt and crap from wet roads.

So what I am advocating is what I would view as a sensible purchase. In the same way that if someone said they wanted to buy a car to use for dropping the kids off at school and as a runabout then I would suggest a people carrier or a Volvo rather than a Porsche.

However, I appreciate that part of the joy of cycling, or at least cycle related purchasing, is not about being sensible. I offered my views as a counterpoint to the other posters who basically said they liked the Dura Aces because they thought they were the coolest and were keen to assist you in spending your money.

Feel free to disregard everything I have said. I won't be offended!

 

[Chris James]

if they were £440, yes.

FFS Bonj, just buy the Dura Aces, you know you want to!

 

[bonj2]

Just to labour the point, race wheel are light. They are light for a reason - there is not much material in them. In order for them to spin up to speed then the rims have to be light and in order for them to be stiff then the few spokes they employ are at very high tension and the rims are extruded into a fairly deep box section. Even the non aero ones.

So the upshot is that if you break a spoke then wheels are barely rideable.

and if you don't break a spoke?

and what little material that is in the rim is distributed over a large area, meaning that the braking surface is thin walled and will wear out faster than a thicker walled, heavier rim. Especially if it is being ridden in everyday conditions (as is typical on a commute) including lots of road salt and crap from wet roads.

They're built with an aluminium braking surface, same as my current rims.
They're not built to never be taken outdoors. They're meant for the road. Besides, how fast they wear out is proportional to how much use they've had.
Since all the rides they will do ARE what you call 'recreational' rides, i.e. riding for the fun of riding, that wear rate will be proportional to the amount of service, and thus enjoyment, they've delivered.
You seem to be under the impression that 'commuting' means riding slowly enough in order not to get sweaty. Well that's not how I ride! I commute fast.
What makes the bike faster makes it more fun. Nothing to do with how much time I'll save, or whether it's 'worth the money'. Lighter = faster = more fun. That's pretty much the only equation that comes into it.

So what I am advocating is what I would view as a sensible purchase. In the same way that if someone said they wanted to buy a car to use for dropping the kids off at school and as a runabout then I would suggest a people carrier or a Volvo rather than a Porsche.


However, I appreciate that part of the joy of cycling, or at least cycle related purchasing, is not about being sensible. I offered my views as a counterpoint to the other posters who basically said they liked the Dura Aces because they thought they were the coolest and were keen to assist you in spending your money.

Feel free to disregard everything I have said. I won't be offended!

Well then norman lamont, why don't you go and get dressed up in your sensible grey tweed jacket with leather patches on the elbows, go and get in your sensible, grey volvo, and go to your 18th century bike shop and buy yourself some sensible, grey, steel wheels with 18 million spokes for ninety six pence each and while you're at it stop off at the bank and deposit all that cash mounting up that you'll NEVER USE.
Or you could enjoy life. That's what I do, and that's the main criteria behind the intended purchase of these wheels! No offence like, but tha'ts the way you're coming across!