Which ebike should I buy?

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OP
OP
A

Attis07

New Member
https://m.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1172927133765982/

I have tried out the bike in person but the only issue is that battery (Unlimited) is not produced anymore at all, so if anything happens with it then I could not replace it. The seller told me that it is not produced anymore.
Apart from this the bike itself is in brand new condition. Never been used.

He would sell it for 580£ to me, we shaked hands and promised it to me as well. He realized (during my visit) that it has a power assist function when you start up the bike and that is why it is 700 quids now but the time when I have checked the bike in person it was 580£. He told me the bike would actually worth 1200£.
 

CXRAndy

Guru
Location
Lincs
Its worth as much as someone is willing to pay.

Here is a link to Endless Sphere. There are many other associated links on the page re pricing of motors.

Personally I'd suggest you buy a recognised brand name e bike and just enjoy it.

Building up a kit is very rewarding, but for some can be a bit too much.
 

Stul

Guru
If you live in a hilly area you are better of with a crank drive as these are more efficient as they operate through the gears. I recently met a chap that had just got himself a hub drive e-bike and it would not get him up the hill to his house!!
 
If you live in a hilly area you are better of with a crank drive as these are more efficient as they operate through the gears. I recently met a chap that had just got himself a hub drive e-bike and it would not get him up the hill to his house!!

I think it depends on the drive the bike has

I have had 3 hub drives (one got sent back to Raleigh - who were very good about it all)
they all made pedalling up hills much easier than on a normal ebike
even the first on which was only 180W and pre-2016 regulations

Note - I am talking about UK road legal ebikes - anything else I have no experience of
 

CXRAndy

Guru
Location
Lincs
If you live in a hilly area you are better of with a crank drive as these are more efficient as they operate through the gears. I recently met a chap that had just got himself a hub drive e-bike and it would not get him up the hill to his house!!

I've never experienced a hub drive, always used crank drive units . I believe you need a 750-1000W hub to match the torque of a crank drive unit with far less power

Hub drive work very well on flatter terrain, smooth, quiet.
 

ETAF

Regular
i would look at other 2nd bikes personally - not sure where you are located - but we have various local dealers near us has 2nd hand e-bikes not sure how much though.

Maybe worth checking the battery life (not sure if you can on that unit ) but i know some can be checked - like the apple batteries can be checked for Life on iphone and macbook - Battery condition & Max Capacity

we have just purchased 2 e-bikes - one is Hub drive (just a direct drive - NOT proportional ) and the other is crank drive (which is proptional)
 

CXRAndy

Guru
Location
Lincs
In my recent research for others I've found an upgraded version of the wife's motor kit. I will order it for the shelf whilst it's available and an excellent price.
 
I've never experienced a hub drive, always used crank drive units . I believe you need a 750-1000W hub to match the torque of a crank drive unit with far less power

Hub drive work very well on flatter terrain, smooth, quiet.

Mid-drive motors still need high levels of wattage to generate high torque. A Bosch mid-drive motor is still using something like 23A current to generate its close to 100Nm torque or 800-900W of power. However the bonus is if you have very low gearing you can amplify the torque of a mid-drive motor. I.e. if you had a 32T chainring at the front and a 48T cog at the rear then you could get a 50% boost on torque compared to what it gives out at the crank. I.e. 100Nm at the crank becomes 150Nm at the rear minus power losses through the drivetrain which could be 1-2Nm. You get hub motors with windings and planetary gears for hill climbing torque but of course that normally would limit their top speed but it really doesn't matter over here as we have the 15.5mph maximum assist speed. Mid-drive motors aren't typically more efficient, you get power losses through the drivetrain and they tend to be the most mechanically complex motors with additional cogs, bearings and sometimes a belt. They also are one self-contained unit in an area vulnerable to water ingress so often they are thermally restricted especially as the controller board is also inside that generates a lot of heat and must be protected from water ingress. The biggest factor to mid-drive motor efficiency is their use of torque sensors so that the motor only assists when the person is peddling harder. This helps minimise wasted energy. It's why the Suntour HESC system which is torque sensor based but with a hub motor gets twice the range of many hub motor ebikes with a cadence sensor and same capacity battery. So I disagree with your statement that you need a 750-1000W hub motor to match a crank drive/mid-drive motor because crank drive/mid-drive motors are already 750-1000W in power just given a 250W rating same as many hub motor ebikes now especially fat bikes that have wider hub motors that also generate up to around 90-100Nm at around 750W but are probably lower wattage than many mid-drive motor ebikes and now get a 250W rating too after going through the European certification system.
 
Mid-drive motors still need high levels of wattage to generate high torque. A Bosch mid-drive motor is still using something like 23A current to generate its close to 100Nm torque or 800-900W of power. However the bonus is if you have very low gearing you can amplify the torque of a mid-drive motor. I.e. if you had a 32T chainring at the front and a 48T cog at the rear then you could get a 50% boost on torque compared to what it gives out at the crank. I.e. 100Nm at the crank becomes 150Nm at the rear minus power losses through the drivetrain which could be 1-2Nm. You get hub motors with windings and planetary gears for hill climbing torque but of course that normally would limit their top speed but it really doesn't matter over here as we have the 15.5mph maximum assist speed. Mid-drive motors aren't typically more efficient, you get power losses through the drivetrain and they tend to be the most mechanically complex motors with additional cogs, bearings and sometimes a belt. They also are one self-contained unit in an area vulnerable to water ingress so often they are thermally restricted especially as the controller board is also inside that generates a lot of heat and must be protected from water ingress. The biggest factor to mid-drive motor efficiency is their use of torque sensors so that the motor only assists when the person is peddling harder. This helps minimise wasted energy. It's why the Suntour HESC system which is torque sensor based but with a hub motor gets twice the range of many hub motor ebikes with a cadence sensor and same capacity battery. So I disagree with your statement that you need a 750-1000W hub motor to match a crank drive/mid-drive motor because crank drive/mid-drive motors are already 750-1000W in power just given a 250W rating same as many hub motor ebikes now especially fat bikes that have wider hub motors that also generate up to around 90-100Nm at around 750W but are probably lower wattage than many mid-drive motor ebikes and now get a 250W rating too after going through the European certification system.

The ebike I had that had to be sent back had a Suntour HESC hub motor and it work fine up hills and on the flat

When I swapped it for a Bosch ACtivLine system I couldn;t really see much difference
slightly different characteristics but the steep hills I was using to test it were about the same on each system
 
OP
OP
A

Attis07

New Member
If you live in a hilly area you are better of with a crank drive as these are more efficient as they operate through the gears. I recently met a chap that had just got himself a hub drive e-bike and it would not get him up the hill to his house!!

Well, the city is hilly but not that bad in overall. I live in Aberdeen.
 
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