Where do your calories really go?

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Sharky

Guru
Location
Kent
Interesting read.

I've read stories of pros deliberately not eating before training rides to encourage the "bonk". In doing so, the body adapts to reduced calories and is able to cope better when the race day comes.
 

midlife

Guru
reminds me of the Atkins diet, eat lots of fat and protein.....fooling the body into thinking it has plenty so there is no need to convert to body fat.
 
Seems to conflict a lot with existing thinking. I've read sumo wrestlers can consume 13,000 calories a day to maintain their weight and people starving in Africa survive on a tiny amount of calories by the body reducing their fat reserves and muscle mass. When you read that study it makes it sound like we should all be the same weight whatever level of exercise we do if the calories are the same. If one person weighs 80kg and the other 160kg and they both walk the same distance surely the energy requirments for the heavier person will be far more and if one person has tiny muscle mass and the other a large muscle mass there should be a difference. The person with the larger muscle mass will be capable of lifting more, running faster, jumping further etc surely that doesn't come with the same energy requirements it would be a lot more. Weight loss is definitely more about eating less than exercise but I feel this report takes this beyond realistic levels.
 

Dogtrousers

Kilometre nibbler
From that article I was left with just questions. It gave the "you can't outrun a bad diet" message that we're familiar with, but never really addressed "where do your calories really go?"

I guess you have to buy the book.
 

Slick

Guru
I felt much the same, still wondering where our calories go. What it did do for me, was slightly depressing as it just confirmed what I already knew, I was built to survive an apocalyptic event and all the wee skinnies wouldn't survive a wet summer in the south of France. :laugh:
 

CXRAndy

Guru
Location
Lincs
Interesting read.

I've read stories of pros deliberately not eating before training rides to encourage the "bonk". In doing so, the body adapts to reduced calories and is able to cope better when the race day comes.

It's called fat adaptation metabolism. (Keto)

Being able to switch readily between fuel stores, makes for a more versatile athlete. Then when you take carbs it's like nitrous with instant kick.
 

presta

Guru
So has anyone actually read any of Pontzer’s papers? There are two that refer to the Hadza, one from 2012, and another from 2015, both using the same source data.

The linked article says “the evolutionary anthropologist recounts the 10-plus years he and his colleagues have spent measuring the metabolisms of people ranging from ultra-athletes to office workers”, well that’s as may be, but he hasn’t spent 10 years measuring the metabolisms of the Hadza tribe that he’s adducing as evidence that extra exercise uses no extra calories. In fact he monitored their energy consumption for just two weeks.

This isn’t even remotely long enough to see the effect of any particular individual changing their activity levels over months & years, so he’s drawing all his conclusions from the comparison between different individuals who exhibit differing levels of activity, and then assuming that any effect must be activity related and not due to any other confounding variables. In his 2012 paper he says himself that “It is important to note that this was not an intervention study”, so he hasn’t tried changing the activity levels of the Hadza, or the Westerners that he’s comparing them with, and yet he claims that “over time, metabolism responds to changes in activity to keep the total energy you spend in check”.

In the 2015 paper he says that military training has been shown to affect TEE, but then contradicts this, saying “comparisons across diverse lifestyles and populations have often shown little or no difference in TEE despite substantial differences in habitual levels of activity”, citing a pair of references from Dugas et al, & Luke et al which don’t back up his claim. Dugas et al has noted that exercise level & TEE each correlate with human development index, but hasn’t looked for the relationship between exercise & TEE. Luke et al didn’t measure exercise levels at all.

Pontzer shows that fat free mass correlates with total energy consumption (TEE), but what’s that going to correlate with, over the long term that he hasn’t studied, if not exercise level? This is likely to be causal in both directions too: more exercise builds muscle, and the muscular are going to be more motivated to exercise. He also notes that studies of Bolivian, Gambian, and Nigerian farmers showed that energy consumption does correlate with exercise, and cites studies from Ravussin and Westerterp which find effects of exercise on TEE too.

In 2015 he says “we lack sufficient statistical power to rule out small or moderate effects of…physical activity on daily energy requirements”

In 2019 Thurber et al published a paper showing that a sufficient level of exercise can increase metabolic rate to the point where it exceeds the gut’s ability to digest food, and that this creates an absolute limit to the long term level of exercise that anyone can sustain. Not muscle or heart & lung fitness, but digestive system capacity. Interestingly, Pontzer is a co-author of this paper, so he seems to be riding two horses at once here.
 

Jameshow

Veteran
So has anyone actually read any of Pontzer’s papers? There are two that refer to the Hadza, one from 2012, and another from 2015, both using the same source data.

The linked article says “the evolutionary anthropologist recounts the 10-plus years he and his colleagues have spent measuring the metabolisms of people ranging from ultra-athletes to office workers”, well that’s as may be, but he hasn’t spent 10 years measuring the metabolisms of the Hadza tribe that he’s adducing as evidence that extra exercise uses no extra calories. In fact he monitored their energy consumption for just two weeks.

This isn’t even remotely long enough to see the effect of any particular individual changing their activity levels over months & years, so he’s drawing all his conclusions from the comparison between different individuals who exhibit differing levels of activity, and then assuming that any effect must be activity related and not due to any other confounding variables. In his 2012 paper he says himself that “It is important to note that this was not an intervention study”, so he hasn’t tried changing the activity levels of the Hadza, or the Westerners that he’s comparing them with, and yet he claims that “over time, metabolism responds to changes in activity to keep the total energy you spend in check”.

In the 2015 paper he says that military training has been shown to affect TEE, but then contradicts this, saying “comparisons across diverse lifestyles and populations have often shown little or no difference in TEE despite substantial differences in habitual levels of activity”, citing a pair of references from Dugas et al, & Luke et al which don’t back up his claim. Dugas et al has noted that exercise level & TEE each correlate with human development index, but hasn’t looked for the relationship between exercise & TEE. Luke et al didn’t measure exercise levels at all.

Pontzer shows that fat free mass correlates with total energy consumption (TEE), but what’s that going to correlate with, over the long term that he hasn’t studied, if not exercise level? This is likely to be causal in both directions too: more exercise builds muscle, and the muscular are going to be more motivated to exercise. He also notes that studies of Bolivian, Gambian, and Nigerian farmers showed that energy consumption does correlate with exercise, and cites studies from Ravussin and Westerterp which find effects of exercise on TEE too.

In 2015 he says “we lack sufficient statistical power to rule out small or moderate effects of…physical activity on daily energy requirements”

In 2019 Thurber et al published a paper showing that a sufficient level of exercise can increase metabolic rate to the point where it exceeds the gut’s ability to digest food, and that this creates an absolute limit to the long term level of exercise that anyone can sustain. Not muscle or heart & lung fitness, but digestive system capacity. Interestingly, Pontzer is a co-author of this paper, so he seems to be riding two horses at once here.

No sweat sherlock we call it:- hitting the wall the fan, bonking etc! Even pros do it occasionally!
 
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