Wheel hub preload problem: can't find a sweet spot between "too rough" and "side-to-side play"

[Isidore Isou]

Sealed bearings are a doddle to replace - take off the end caps both sides, and just tap out from one side, then put axel back in and tap out the other side. Now if there is play it's likely one bearing has failed. You can check that by taking the axel out, and using your finger, try and move the inner part of the bearing. Some can be perfectly smooth, but are worn and have play.

OK so no way to check the bearings by turning them by hand. I guess I'll try to replace both, I don't see another choice.

 

[keithmac]

Hey thanks, no I don't have one. There is only one inside the freehub, but not in the front wheel hub or rear wheel hub. I understand what you mean, it will indeed put more force on the bearings. There is some bike hubs witch contains the spacer you mention, I guess that's a better choice.

But, in the front hub, things are smooth and playless, even without this center spacer.

You'll have to be very careful not to over preload the new bearings, that's a very poor design choice by the manufacturer.

 

[fossyant]

OK so no way to check the bearings by turning them by hand. I guess I'll try to replace both, I don't see another choice.

Take the caps off, then wiggle the axel. If there is play, need new ones.

 

[Blue Hills]

Sealed bearings are a doddle to replace - take off the end caps both sides, and just tap out from one side, then put axel back in and tap out the other side. Now if there is play it's likely one bearing has failed. You can check that by taking the axel out, and using your finger, try and move the inner part of the bearing. Some can be perfectly smooth, but are worn and have play.

I may be back to you about one of my old wheels.

 

[coldash]

I’ve done this job on Fulcrum Racing 5 and Quattro wheels. First of all, I would replace both bearings. It’s not difficult to knock the old one out with a screwdriver and a hammer, if you’re careful. Fitting the new bearings (6903 in my case) is easy with a bearing press. The cheap ones on eBay are fine but make sure you get decent bearings (there is a lot of crap / counterfeit stuff around). I’ve been happy with Wiggle’s more expensive Brand X ones. The Fulcrum manual (and a lot of the YouTube videos) shows setting and checking the preload with the wheel out of the frame. IMO that will lead to even the slightest free play being huge when the wheel is back in the frame so I set the preload while the wheel in the frame and the Q/R tightened. Turning the preload collar until there is minimal free play whilst allowing the wheel to rotate freely is a bit of a balancing act and IME removing all of the free play usually leads to the wheel binding and too much preload will knacker the bearings. What is acceptable free play is a bit of a personal thing. I can live with a small amount. Then when you tighten the adjuster you will find that it tightens the free play which is bloody annoying but it’s just a case of slacking it off a bit and then retightening it (repeatedly) until you are happy.

BTW. I got well over 10,000 miles out of my original bearings on one pair of wheels and less than 3,000 out of the other set despite them having the same bearing type and similar dry (ish) usage

... and use good quality Allen keys. The 2.5mm bolts are easily rounded if the ball end or poor fit Allen keys are used.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

Once the bearing surfaces start to wear out you are on a hiding to nothing trying to adjust it and will require new parts.

Absolutely, the wear resistance in bearings is in the case hardening. Once you go through that into the softer base metal you get more rapid wear, and in junk engineered sealed bearings, you can't even slow down the wear by extra attention to lubrication.
Just as @Blue Hills says, the best way of making bike wheel bearings last is to use serviceable cup and cone ones. So long as you regrease them regularly even cheapo ones will last for decades, they just don't run as smooth as the expensive ones whose surfaces are ground to a better finish.. Modern road bike engineering really is rubbish, throwaway short life junk.

 

[Blue Hills]

Absolutely, the wear resistance in bearings is in the case hardening. Once you go through that into the softer base metal you get more rapid wear, and in junk engineered sealed bearings, you can't even slow down the wear by extra attention to lubrication.
Just as @Blue Hills says, the best way of making bike wheel bearings last is to use serviceable cup and cone ones. So long as you regrease them regularly even cheapo ones will last for decades, they just don't run as smooth as the expensive ones whose surfaces are ground to a better finish.. Modern road bike engineering really is rubbish, throwaway short life junk.

by the by skipdiver how often would you take apart/regrease wheel bearings? I realise that this is somewhat usage dependent - more complicated if you have several bikes. I tend to sort of aim for every year or two but need to get more organised on my record keeping.
I intend to make all my remaining hubs last the rest of my life - i wore one to wreckage in my earlier more ignorant years - basically because I was too scared to touch them. I would have been less scared if I'd read more on the complications of sealed cartridge bearings.
By the by also I would recommend that folks take apart and grease loose-ball bearings soon after purchase - even the revered mr shimano, for reasons best known to himself, tends to skimp on the grease.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

by the by skipdiver how often would you take apart/regrease wheel bearings? I realise that this is somewhat usage dependent - more complicated if you have several bikes. I tend to sort of aim for every year or two but need to get more organised on my record keeping.

What I've generally done is do a regrease on wheels at the time of acqusition, and then at a reasonable frequency afterwards. When I've bought a secondhand machine, or salvaged a wheel off a scrapper as a future spare, I lube it then, even if I am not going to ride on it immediately.
Once in service, I give my wheel bearings a quick squirt of chain spray grease, using a long nozzle, into the gap between the cup and cone each side. I do this every few rides on the hack bikes that live outdoors, slightly less often on my "best" bikes. I also aim a squirt into the BB axle/housing interface, because none of my BB's are sealed, they are all caged/loose ball bearing ones and need regular lubrication. It only takes a minute and is part of my regular one-overs I do to look for defects and things needing attention.

 

[Blue Hills]

What I've generally done is do a regrease on wheels at the time of acqusition, and then at a reasonable frequency afterwards. When I've bought a secondhand machine, or salvaged a wheel off a scrapper as a future spare, I lube it then, even if I am not going to ride on it immediately.
Once in service, I give my wheel bearings a quick squirt of chain spray grease, using a long nozzle, into the gap between the cup and cone each side. I do this every few rides on the hack bikes that live outdoors, slightly less often on my "best" bikes. I also aim a squirt into the BB axle/housing interface, because none of my BB's are sealed, they are all caged/loose ball bearing ones and need regular lubrication. It only takes a minute and is part of my regular one-overs I do to look for defects and things needing attention.

Ta for the reply but I meant taking them apart. I personally wouldn't use spray grease. Thicker stuff in a traditional grease gun.

edit - I totally agree with regreasing (I assume you jean with full disassembly the first time) newly acquired wheels - whether second hand or new.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

Yes, a disassembly regrease at first, then a squirt from a can when required after. I like the spray grease, because it goes in as a liquid initially, then thickens as the solvents evaporate. This happens pretty quickly. You can get the lube to penetrate right into a bearing from outside just by aiming the nozzle at the cup/cone joint. No need to disassemble regularly afterwards. Obviously the bearings will still need periodic overhauls, but motorcycle chain spray is designed for much more arduous operating conditions than in a bike wheel. It is more than good enough for the job, and ease of application means the lubrication tends to get done more often, whereas it is easy to keep putting off a stripdown overhaul because it's a bit of a faff.. Also good for brake & gear cables - just squirt & go.

 

[johnnyb47]

I have a set of Fulcrum Quattro wheels to which i had the same problem. The locking adjuster is very much a balancing act of getting it just right, as to not over tightening it and causing binding or not enough to cause the wheel to "wobble"
After setting it up perfectly the rear wheel would soon develop some free play after very few miles. Changing both the sealed bearings somehow solved the problem..
I think when these bearings start to wear, they deteriorate rapidly to the point you end up having to constantly adjust them to keep things running smooth.