Wheel hub preload problem: can't find a sweet spot between "too rough" and "side-to-side play"

[Isidore Isou]

Hello everybody,

I can't fine tune my rear wheel hub in order to have a smooth rotation without any play.

• Wheel: Fulcrum Racing 7 LG CX / Campa style hub / sealed bearings.
• Here is a video where I try to explain this problem (I've also posted this on reddit):

With the wheel mounted on the frame, freehub removed:

• If I tighten the adjustment ring (1), even all the way, I can't remove all the play, and the wheel keeps spinning smoothly.
• Then if I tighten the adjustment ring locking screw (2), I have to tighten pretty hard and then I can remove any play, but the wheel no longer turns perfectly freely anymore, no pendulum motion like on the front wheel, and if I remove the wheel, the hub feels rough.
• Since the locking screw should only lock, not remove the play, I have a problem, but where?

• Here is a picture of the axle, there is some marks where the non drive side bearing sits, but I'm not sure why. The axle seems fine, not bend, but it's a bit hard to be sure:

• Also, some play appears very rapidly on this wheel, like after 50km. Everything seemed fine when I started my last ride, but at the end of it, there were side to side play. Because of that, I have to tighten the adjustment ring screw pretty hard to lock everything.
• It begins at the end of last summer, I noticed some play in my rear wheel hub, after 2000 km of road bike tour.
• Changed one bearing witch seemed rough, to an enduro bearing. The other bearing is perfectly fine when I turn it by hand.
• I've noticed that the freehub is not the problem, it's perfectly fine.

Thanks a lot for any feedbacks!

 

[Rip Van]

I've had a similar problem with a Fulcrum Racing 5DB rear wheel. Somehow, at some point, the "dinked" washer that sits against the bearing was put in the wrong way round. Now, with it the right way round, I'm able to remove all play without feeling that it's dragging, although I haven't road tested it yet. I was getting similar results to you, I think, when it was in wrong. Remove play, go fror a ride, play in hub after ride. The depressed inner of the washer should be towards the centre of the hub, assuming the wheel construction is the same. The axle certainly looks exactly the same as the axle on my Fulcrum front wheel.

 

[Isidore Isou]

Hello,

I have double check this metal washer but unfortunately, it's always been in the right way. It does not look bent either.

I went for a small ride today, with absolute no play on my wheel. 30km 90% road 10% forest. I came home, checked the wheel: a fair amount of side to side play 🥺.
I have no idea what's going on and it's making me nuts!
I have a big ride planned next week, I will do it anyway, hope I'm not destroying anything.

 

[C R]

Hello,

I have double check this metal washer but unfortunately, it's always been in the right way. It does not look bent either.

I went for a small ride today, with absolute no play on my wheel. 30km 90% road 10% forest. I came home, checked the wheel: a fair amount of side to side play 🥺.
I have no idea what's going on and it's making me nuts!
I have a big ride planned next week, I will do it anyway, hope I'm not destroying anything.

If side to side play is significant the bearings will eventually get damaged. If side to side play is a lot then the axle will probably start to bend.

Do you have a bike mechanic nearby who could have a look at the wheel?

 

[keithmac]

Once the bearing surfaces start to wear out you are on a hiding to nothing trying to adjust it and will require new parts.

 

[Isidore Isou]

If side to side play is significant the bearings will eventually get damaged. If side to side play is a lot then the axle will probably start to bend.

Do you have a bike mechanic nearby who could have a look at the wheel?

Since my bike is home made and my wheels are "cheap" (150€ set), my local bike shop will not take time to diagnose the problem, he will propose me to replace the bearings, witch cost the price of a new rear wheel, and won't solve the problem for sure.

 

[Isidore Isou]

Once the bearing surfaces start to wear out you are on a hiding to nothing trying to adjust it and will require new parts.

I'm wondering, since 1 bearing in this wheel is new, and the other one has 2000km, is it possible that those bearings seem perfectly fine when turning by hand, but are in fact, wore?

 

[Blue Hills]

Since my bike is home made and my wheels are "cheap" (150€ set), my local bike shop will not take time to diagnose the problem, he will propose me to replace the bearings, witch cost the price of a new rear wheel, and won't solve the problem for sure.

150 euros doesn't strike me as "cheap" - my two handbuilt wheels from Spa cost about that. As for the cost of the bearings being the cost of a new wheel, I'd move in future to wheels with replaceable balls.
As for solving the current issue, I'll leave that to folks on here with more expertise.

 

[Isidore Isou]

150 euros doesn't strike me as "cheap" - my two handbuilt wheels from Spa cost about that. As for the cost of the bearings being the cost of a new wheel, I'd move in future to wheels with replaceable balls.
As for solving the current issue, I'll leave that to folks on here with more expertise.

That's why I used quotation mark.
I meant bearings replacement + labor time. Bearings in itself are about 7€.

 

[Blue Hills]

That's why I used quotation mark.
I meant bearings replacement + labor time. Bearings in itself are about 7€.

ah - ok - did wonder about that and the labour.
Not getting at you I stress, but I do strongly recommend loose ball bearings as still used by mr shimano - service them yourself - a slight fag and takes a bit of time but if done now and again i understand that a shimano hub can last pretty much for ever. I have in the past used a "swappable bearing unit" wheel, but won't be getting one again. I stress that I am not technical.

 

[Isidore Isou]

ah - ok - did wonder about that and the labour.
Not getting at you I stress, but I do strongly recommend loose ball bearings as still used by mr shimano - service them yourself - a slight fag and takes a bit of time but if done now and again i understand that a shimano hub can last pretty much for ever. I have in the past used a "swappable bearing unit" wheel, but won't be getting one again. I stress that I am not technical.

Right, in fact that was the first set of wheels I bought so I did not know about different type of bearing at the time.
I really like the idea of having a hub you can service yourself instead if pressed sealed bearings, will keep that in mind thanks!

 

[keithmac]

I work on motorcycles mainly, they all use sealed wheel bearings.

Have you got a centre spacer in your wheel, between the bearings where the axle can slide through?.

It looks to me like the adjuster just preloads the bearing from the side to locate it which seems a very poor idea as the bearing isn't designed to be used like that.

The centre spacer allows the axle to be tightened up without excessively preloading the bearings.

 

[keithmac]

Centre spacer is number 2 in the picture, just to give you an idea.

 

[fossyant]

Sealed bearings are a doddle to replace - take off the end caps both sides, and just tap out from one side, then put axel back in and tap out the other side. Now if there is play it's likely one bearing has failed. You can check that by taking the axel out, and using your finger, try and move the inner part of the bearing. Some can be perfectly smooth, but are worn and have play.

 

[Isidore Isou]

Have you got a centre spacer in your wheel, between the bearings where the axle can slide through?.

Hey thanks, no I don't have one. There is only one inside the freehub, but not in the front wheel hub or rear wheel hub. I understand what you mean, it will indeed put more force on the bearings. There is some bike hubs witch contains the spacer you mention, I guess that's a better choice.

But, in the front hub, things are smooth and playless, even without this center spacer.