What's your agenda?

[Drago]

What's on our agendas is the actual topic, rather than agendas thenselves

 

[ufkacbln]

Should we not have had an Agenda for this thread?

 

[StuartG]

To try and combat our natural and strong ability to create an illusion of certainty where none exists.

 

[theclaud]

I've been first on scene for a number of accidents over the years, some of which included people with very serious head injuries. I've never seen one where their 'brains were leaking out'.

In fact, the only time I've ever seen anyone with the 'brains leaking out' was in Rwanda - and that had been a machete...

I can't quite justify the cheery "Like" button for this one, but it had occurred to me that the language was unnecessarily emotive.

 

[Wobblers]

My conscience wouldn't let me walk on by, even if they chose not to wear a helmet? Surely that's applaudable? Would you rather I left them in the gutter?

I think people should wear them, but fundamentally couldn't care less if they didn't and wouldn't waste my breath trying to convert them. You want to risk your noggin - no skin off my nose. Wheres the inconsistency there?



Twice. Once when I was on leave from the Army, would've been 23 or 24 years ago, in Milton Keynes. And once 5 or 6 years ago on the edge of Northampton. I kept the 2nd one going til Ambo got there and he did live, but he was off work for over 6 month due to the head injuries and ultimately lost his job. I still keep in cotnact with him occasionally via FB.

I remember the 2nd one well cos the Ambo crew stood on my Oakleys

Sigh. If you really did come across someone "with their brains leaking out", they're dead. The forces requried to do that would certainly be enough to cause massive diffuse axonal injuries throughout the brain - and would most likely have destroyed the vital centres of the brain stem.

Oh, and it takes 500 Joules to fracture the average skull. A helmet's rated for 50 Joules (75 Joules if it's to Snell standard). So they're still dead if they'd been wearing a lid.

Edit: sorry to hear about your Oakleys!

 

[Wobblers]

Sigh. If you really did come across someone "with their brains leaking out", they're dead. The forces requried to do that would certainly be enough to cause massive diffuse axonal injuries throughout the brain - and would most likely have destroyed the vital centres of the brain stem.

Oh, and it takes 500 Joules to fracture the average skull. A helmet's rated for 50 Joules (75 Joules if it's to Snell standard). So they're still dead if they'd been wearing lid.

I suppose at this point I should answer the original question.

My agenda is to refute the helmet myths (as above) and combat the bad science.

 

[StuartG]

Oh, and it takes 500 Joules to fracture the average skull. A helmet's rated for 50 Joules (75 Joules if it's to Snell standard). So they're still dead if they'd been wearing lid.

Is this science additive? In other words would it not take 550 joules to fracture a lidded skull (or at least something in excess of 500)? That is some of the joules being consumed in collapsing the helmet?

I'm trying to get my head around (sorry) the actual medical benefits of having a helmet in a head banging episode. From my experience contusions to the head are invariably very bloody events which may, of course, make an injury appear more serious than it is. Would 50 joules be sufficient for a decent incision and hence messy aftermath but probably leading to a complete recovery. Whereas with a helmet may reduce that to a scratch or just bruising?

I presume the distribution of head injuries as measured in joules is basically a decreasing one with severity. That is most head bangs/crashes maybe less than 50 joules and the helmet does its job. Albeit not saving life but one's clothing from a long soak and an unscheduled haircut.

Fits in with anecdotes ...

 

[Wobblers]

Is this science additive? In other words would it not take 550 joules to fracture a lidded skull (or at least something in excess of 500)? That is some of the joules being consumed in collapsing the helmet?

I'm trying to get my head around (sorry) the actual medical benefits of having a helmet in a head banging episode. From my experience contusions to the head are invariably very bloody events which may, of course, make an injury appear more serious than it is. Would 50 joules be sufficient for a decent incision and hence messy aftermath but probably leading to a complete recovery. Whereas with a helmet may reduce that to a scratch or just bruising?

I presume the distribution of head injuries as measured in joules is basically a decreasing one with severity. That is most head bangs/crashes maybe less than 50 joules and the helmet does its job. Albeit not saving life but one's clothing from a long soak and an unscheduled haircut.

Fits in with anecdotes ...

Exactly that: it is additive. A helmet may have some relatively small effect in reducing the forces, but this benefit doesn't show up in whole population studies.

It should also be pointed out that it is possible to suffer a serious or even fatal brain injury with a small 50 J impact. The clinical pathology is almost always the impact ruptures a small blood vessel in the meninges membrane, and the resultant haemorrhage increases the intercranial pressure to a lethal level. This is behind the stories of those unfortunate people who die after minor falls and bumps you hear of occasionally. A lid will certainly be of benefit to someone that is susceptible to this type of injury in a stationary or near stationary fall, but rather less so at speed.

In most cases a helmet will prevent or lessen a scalp injury - you just need to prevent the scalp coming into contact with the ground. The scalp is richly perfused, so bleeds rather spectacularly and messily, though it is rarely serious

 

[Trickedem]

I am anti-compulsion. But I always wear a helmet, not sure why, but probably for the same reasons I don't walk under ladders and say good morning to magpies.

 

[Licramite]

I to am an ANTI-COMPULSONIST.
I don,t beleive the protection from a helmet is sufficient to warrent it.
I DO believe you should wear one. - and a high vis jacket and gloves. and refelectors on the bike. and a bell. and lights at night.
Helmets May save your life, - Serious Head injuries are more often on the inside, more than a fractured skull and then they are only usefull to a limited degree , I would say a helmet will be useful in of 95% cases of head/ground accidents (at a guess) - I think its fairly rare to hit your head -cycling- hard enough to completey negate a helmet effect. - but I can,t prove that.

I would much rather see a compulsion on local authorities to form proper - continuous- cycle lanes
going from A to B not A to nowhere.

 

[RiflemanSmith]

I think it would offer fairly good protection for most situations but very little for RTA's involving cars etc.
It doesn't bother me wearing it as it is not heavy and I hardly notice it.
It has a light on it which I couldn't put on my head and my head also isn't bright yellow.

 

[RedRider]

My agenda: Cycling is safe and focussing on helmet-wearing gives the impression it's not. I think that's a bad thing. Anti-compulsion, pro-choice.

 

[Licramite]

So, once again, you speak from position of ignorance...




We already have those - they're called roads.

What are you a world leading expert on the subject? - written a phd on the subject?(wouldn,t I look silly if you were and had)
- why do you suppose you know more than anyone else to claim everyone else are ignorant?

its just an opinion - your not a troll are you?

at a guess 95% of head hitting road will only result in cuts scraps and bumps - a helmet will help then

I did say cycle lanes , roads allow cars/trucks/busses on them - in theory cycle lanes don,t

- your a wined up merchant arn,t you. you don,t have opinions of your own you just like to wined up others - got it, - well done you got me.

 

[Licramite]

I just like taking the **** out of people who think they know what's best for everyone else...

..and who are too retarded to understand the basics of evidence based research.


Am I a bad person?

yes

 

[Rob3rt]

, is not equal to '.

Licramite, is English your 1st language?

My agenda is non-existant, at least I can not fathom one, I don't care either way, nor have I bothered to consider the evidence either way in any depth. I wear a helmet, but I don't mind if others do or do not. In competition a helmet is mandatory, I just accept this as written. Plus an aero helmet makes you faster and you look more pro innit!