What wheelset? What price?

[Venod]

I have never understood why people rate handbuilt wheels over factory wheels, I have had several pairs of excellent hand built wheels they come with the hubs rims and spokes that you want, I have also had some excellent factory built wheels, you could blindfold me and I wouldn't know if I was riding factory or handbuilt, probably wouldn't get far blindfolded though but you get the gist.

 

[Dusty Bin]

Not a big one anyway!

unless 0.01 seconds is important...

 

[Dusty Bin]

I have never understood why people rate handbuilt wheels over factory wheels, I have had several pairs of excellent hand built wheels they come with the hubs rims and spokes that you want, I have also had some excellent factory built wheels, you could blindfold me and I wouldn't know if I was riding factory or handbuilt, probably wouldn't get far blindfolded though but you get the gist.

Agreed. The majority of half-decent factory wheels are handbuilt anyway.

 

[Rob3rt]

unless 0.01 seconds is important...

 

[Cuchilo]

Hand built is a nice little marketing phrase that mass production companies like to use if they employ a human

 

[VamP]

Hand built is a nice little marketing phrase that mass production companies like to use if they employ a human

...and wheelbuilders to make themselves sound more boutique.

 

[mattobrien]

Jon, might be worth looking at some Campag Zondas. Low(ish) weight and can be got for around £280 online.

I am seriously considering these for when my Mavic Ksyrium Elites wear out on the winter bike.

Either that or chase my re some Fulcrums if Andrew decides he doesn't want them.

 

[Jon George]

Thanks for your thoughts so far, people - I'm on a steep learning-curve and it's nice (and fun) to pick and choose. FYI I'm currently running Shimano components.

 

[Andrew_Culture]

Jon. This is gong to go against conventional logic as I'm potentially doing myself out of an incredible bargain, but I'd recommend you speak to Matt about his spare wheel set.

I do really love the idea of buying Matt's wheels but I don't have a bike worth putting them on which puts me quite far off having the cash to buy them. As you're ready to upgrade now I'd say go for it.

 

[mattobrien]

Thanks for your thoughts so far, people - I'm on a steep learning-curve and it's nice (and fun) to pick and choose. FYI I'm currently running Shimano components.

I believe you can get the campag zonda as with the right free hub for a shimano cassette so that ought not to be a problem.

Unfortunately I think I will be using my winter bike with the Mavic's on them a lot more in June coming days, weeks and months, otherwise I would have offered to let you try them out.

 

[Spoked Wheels]

I have never understood why people rate handbuilt wheels over factory wheels, I have had several pairs of excellent hand built wheels they come with the hubs rims and spokes that you want, I have also had some excellent factory built wheels, you could blindfold me and I wouldn't know if I was riding factory or handbuilt, probably wouldn't get far blindfolded though but you get the gist.

I totally understand your point. I don't think I could tell one from the other if blindfolded.

I recently fixed a Mavic Ksyrium Elites rear wheel for a friend. I had been warned by a pro wheelbuilder friend to keep away from such wheels but I'm the type of person that I enjoy a challenge and I wanted to know by myself why I should keep away. I had an idea beforehand of why wheelbuilders don't like fixing / rebuilding these wheels and that it is to do with the time is needed to do a good job. Time is money and I thought these wheels would require more time than other wheels.

My first impression of the wheel was good and solid. Not as light as I had anticipated. Closer inspection confirmed what I had already known about these wheels, every single component of this wheel could not be got off the shelve from my LBS if I wanted to. You can order everything at a premium cost if you want to.

Now, non of the spoke keys I have would fit the nipples, so I needed to buy a spoke key for the Mavic Ksyrium Elites and they do them before and after 2005. £13 for a spoke key that can only be used with some Mavic wheels, not all.

The secret of wheelbuilders for not ending with egg shaped wheels is keeping all things equal. Well, at that moment I realised that these nipples are not well suited for handbuild. The way the key fits the nipple makes things more difficult to try to turn each nipple an equal amount. Conclusion, I now know for sure why wheelbuilders don't like these Mavic Ksyrium Elites factory wheels :-) at a guess I reckon it takes twice as long to build and since time is money for wheelbuilders they hate them I hated it too and I don't charge a penny

I have never told anybody that a set of handbuilt wheels would make riders go faster. I don't know any serious wheelbuilder that claims that either. That is something that riders claim but I feel it has been attributed to wheelbuilders on this thread.

In my personal experience I found that lighter wheels make it easier to climb hills. That has nothing to do with being handbuilt or factory built. I also say that bladed spokes would only make a difference at speeds of over 25pmh.
The advantage of handbuild wheels is in the durability and the easy of maintenance. If I have an accident and bend the rim I can get a replacement rim almost anywhere, something that factory wheels cannot promise. I'm talking about decent factory wheels. Cheap factory wheels have other issues that there is no point going on about here.

 

[User6179]

I totally understand your point. I don't think I could tell one from the other if blindfolded.

I recently fixed a Mavic Ksyrium Elites rear wheel for a friend. I had been warned by a pro wheelbuilder friend to keep away from such wheels but I'm the type of person that I enjoy a challenge and I wanted to know by myself why I should keep away. I had an idea beforehand of why wheelbuilders don't like fixing / rebuilding these wheels and that it is to do with the time is needed to do a good job. Time is money and I thought these wheels would require more time than other wheels.

My first impression of the wheel was good and solid. Not as light as I had anticipated. Closer inspection confirmed what I had already known about these wheels, every single component of this wheel could not be got off the shelve from my LBS if I wanted to. You can order everything at a premium cost if you want to.

Now, non of the spoke keys I have would fit the nipples, so I needed to buy a spoke key for the Mavic Ksyrium Elites and they do them before and after 2005. £13 for a spoke key that can only be used with some Mavic wheels, not all.

The secret of wheelbuilders for not ending with egg shaped wheels is keeping all things equal. Well, at that moment I realised that these nipples are not well suited for handbuild. The way the key fits the nipple makes things more difficult to try to turn each nipple an equal amount. Conclusion, I now know for sure why wheelbuilders don't like these Mavic Ksyrium Elites factory wheels :-) at a guess I reckon it takes twice as long to build and since time is money for wheelbuilders they hate them I hated it too and I don't charge a penny

I have never told anybody that a set of handbuilt wheels would make riders go faster. I don't know any serious wheelbuilder that claims that either. That is something that riders claim but I feel it has been attributed to wheelbuilders on this thread.

In my personal experience I found that lighter wheels make it easier to climb hills. That has nothing to do with being handbuilt or factory built. I also say that bladed spokes would only make a difference at speeds of over 25pmh.
The advantage of handbuild wheels is in the durability and the easy of maintenance. If I have an accident and bend the rim I can get a replacement rim almost anywhere, something that factory wheels cannot promise. I'm talking about decent factory wheels. Cheap factory wheels have other issues that there is no point going on about here.

I was agreeing with you till you said handbuilts are more durable, I don't think you can quantify this but I think as most handbuilts are J-bend spokes, on low spoke count wheels I would argue factory wheels with straight pull will be far more durable !

Available parts is the only reason I see for buying handbuilts and even then on say a £250 pair of HBs if you knackered a rim it could cost you nearly as much as the original wheel cost to fix.

 

[Dusty Bin]

If I have an accident and bend the rim I can get a replacement rim almost anywhere, something that factory wheels cannot promise.

Same as Eddy, I agree with 99% of what you say, apart from this bit ^^^

Yes, you could get a replacement rim, but it would need to be an identical rim, or at least the same spoke count and the same rim depth. If it wasn't, you would either need new spokes, or a different rim, or both. Nothing is ever straightforward.

 

[Spoked Wheels]

I was agreeing with you till you said handbuilts are more durable, I don't think you can quantify this but I think as most handbuilts are J-bend spokes, on low spoke count wheels I would argue factory wheels with straight pull will be far more durable !

Available parts is the only reason I see for buying handbuilts and even then on say a £250 pair of HBs if you knackered a rim it could cost you nearly as much as the original wheel cost to fix.

I see your point about the J-bend spokes, still, there are lots and lots of examples out there from handbuilts wheels that go for far longer than factory build wheels. J-bend spokes suffer with fatigue failure when they loose tension, the spoke suffer stress from different sides as the wheel turn..... bad factory build wheels are really to blame for this bad reputation of the J-bend spoke cause most cheap factory build wheels are under tensioned and with uneven tension which results in lose spokes and fatigue failure follows.

Factory wheels like Mavic Ksyrium Elites don't use J-bend spokes but they use much higher tension - if I remember correctly the spokes for the rear wheel on the Mavic Ksyrium Elites is between 140 to 170 kgf. that is a lot and after a while that will have an effect on the rim. Cracked rims is a problem for wheels with too high tension.

I bet that most touring wheels are handbuilt and that is not because of their weight but because of their durability.

I'm not trying to convince you to go for handbuild wheels, you get what you think is best for you.

 

[User6179]

I see your point about the J-bend spokes, still, there are lots and lots of examples out there from handbuilts wheels that go for far longer than factory build wheels. J-bend spokes suffer with fatigue failure when they loose tension, the spoke suffer stress from different sides as the wheel turn..... bad factory build wheels are really to blame for this bad reputation of the J-bend spoke cause most cheap factory build wheels are under tensioned and with uneven tension which results in lose spokes and fatigue failure follows.

Factory wheels like Mavic Ksyrium Elites don't use J-bend spokes but they use much higher tension - if I remember correctly the spokes for the rear wheel on the Mavic Ksyrium Elites is between 140 to 170 kgf. that is a lot and after a while that will have an effect on the rim. Cracked rims is a problem for wheels with too high tension.

I bet that most touring wheels are handbuilt and that is not because of their weight but because of their durability.

I'm not trying to convince you to go for handbuild wheels, you get what you think is best for you.

I agree with what you are saying but a handbuilt wheel can still be under tensioned and suffer from same issues as poorly built under tensioned factory wheels either by poor workmanship by the wheel builder or through time as spokes lose tension .

On the value side I cannot think of another product that's made overseas that gives good value buying the parts separately then paying someone to build the product here rather than just buying the whole product to start with, so to me handbuilts don't make sense.