What frame size do you ride

[freiston]

Apologies for being off thread topic.
Various demonstrations of misuse of 'rake', or acknowledgement of widespread (misinformed) misuse as an alternative. 'Rake' sounds like an angle, don't you think? 'Offset' is definitely a distance.
Using them interchangeably makes for poor communications - that's the point. Offset can only mean one thing. Rake has many meanings, of which its misuse for 'rake' is but one.
<<SNIPPED>>

In the pushbike world, rake and offset are generally used as the same thing. You categorically told me that I was wrong. I pointed out that I was quoting the manufacturer and gave references to demonstrate that in the pushbike world, rake and offset are the same thing. If you google 'bicycle rake', you will see that rake expressed as a distance and the approximate phrase "rake also known as offset" is rather the norm and that this approach is adopted by people and companies that seem to know their business.

I get the point that you consider this a misuse and that us that use rake as offset are misinformed and poor communicators, but really that is your opinion and the fact is that in the cycling world, people use rake and offset interchangeably and have no problem with that and understand what they and others are talking about, including some of the biggest names in bicycle frame design - see below. Language isn't a fixed absolute and usage determines it.

Spa cycles give their fork rake in mm link

Dave Moulton (frame builder linked in my previous post) describes rake as distance and aka offset.

Road Cycling UK discuss fork rake in terms of distance (the people in the discussion are Albert Steward of Genesis, James Olsen of Pinnacle and Hoy Bikes, and Remi Gribaudo of Lapierre)

Sheldon Brown (linked in my previous post) calls rake and offset the same thing and a distance.

Lennard Zinn (author of Zinn and the art of road bike maintenance) discusses fork rakes in terms of mm.

Chain Reaction describe offset aka rake as a distance

Mike Burrows in a video titled "Why are bicycle forks set at an angle?" (2minutes 10 seconds in) refers to a fork rake of "about 1 ¾"​

 

[CanucksTraveller]

Mike Burrows in a video titled "Why are bicycle forks set at an angle?" (2minutes 10 seconds in) refers to a fork rake of "about 1 ¾"

You had me at "Mike Burrows".

 

[Ajax Bay]

Language isn't a fixed absolute and usage determines it.

I agree, and I'd like Cycle Chat to lead in good usage, recognising that 'rake' is also used. Do you think 'offset' is worse than 'rake', or better/clearer. If the latter, use it: take the lead. I take it you prefer top tube, but why not 'cross bar'?

 

[Goggs]

I agree, and I'd like Cycle Chat to lead in good usage, recognising that 'rake' is also used. Do you think 'offset' is worse than 'rake', or better/clearer. If the latter, use it: take the lead. I take it you prefer top tube, but why not 'cross bar'?

It's definitely a top tube, mainly because it's a tube.

 

[hondated]

Until recently being 5' 10" with a 32" inside leg I have always ridden a 54cm a 21" in old money. But having measured my Roberts its a 55cm so I have built a couple of bikes on 56cm frames and with a shorter stem I seem to be more comfortable. So its worth experimenting.

 

[wajc]

From the Kinesis website

http://www.kinesisbikes.co.uk/Catalogue/Models/Racelight/T2-Bike

click on geometry and suggested ride height for a 57cm frame is 174cm (5ft 7 inches) to 184cm (6ft 0 inches).

With that info I'd like to think that the bike frame size is in the right area for you - sounds like the fit just needs tweaking to suit you.

 

[freiston]

I agree, and I'd like Cycle Chat to lead in good usage, recognising that 'rake' is also used. Do you think 'offset' is worse than 'rake', or better/clearer. If the latter, use it: take the lead. I take it you prefer top tube, but why not 'cross bar'?

I don't think offset or rake is worse, better or clearer. Apart from you, I don't think, in the context of pushbikes, I have ever heard of rake quantified in degrees nor do I think I have ever been privy to rake used in any other sense than that of offset. I often see offset used without mention of rake but I don't recall ever (apart from you) hearing a distinction made between the two. So it's not the latter and there is no lead to take. That (as I've witnessed so far) appears to be a crusade firmly in your domain and, so far, in no-one else's.

Re "I take it you prefer top tube, but why not 'cross bar'?" I don't know how you took it that I prefer top tube to crossbar - maybe because in other posts on this forum, I have used the term 'top tube' but not cross bar. To be honest, I don't have a preference. When talking with other cyclists, I tend to use 'top tube'; when talking colloquially with 'non-cyclist peers', I tend to use 'cross-bar'. I have no preference but I suppose that because I was brought up to know it as a cross-bar and not a top-tube, when I'm really tired, I default to cross-bar. As long as whoever hears it knows what I'm talking about, it doesn't matter - and if they didn't understand, then I would use the other term or elucidate. Why do you ask that question - based on a false presumption and without any prior discussion or mention between us of that piece of frame? Was it intended to be a rhetorical device, a logical parry or counter-riposte, or are you just trying to put words in my mouth in a desperate attempt to make a point (I can't think of any other reason or why it is relevant)?