What defines a Vintage or Classic Bike?

[Rickshaw Phil]

........My miffed-ness soon disappeared though, when I noticed the frame was lugged & brazed not welded, and I spotted the Reynolds 501 sticker on the seat tube! I wasn't expecting that at all, as I bet the vast majority of buyers opted for the standard frame rather than pay the extra for a Reynolds one. ........

Very nice. I believe that Reynolds 501 was the standard material for that age of Pioneer. They went to the welded 4130 Chromoly in the mid 90s.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

Very nice. I believe that Reynolds 501 was the standard material for that age of Pioneer. They went to the welded 4130 Chromoly in the mid 90s.

What year do you reckon mine is then? It's a Pioneer Trail, which appears to be the top of the range spec, but it's an 18 speed (3 on the front, 6 on the rear), not the 21 speed I can find in the catalogues. I don't see any year in which the gear count and colour for the Trail match mine. Components look decent quality Shimano, the calipers being Altus alloy, not the black finish ones you see more commonly. Brake levers are also alloy not black/resin. My 1989 MTB also has alloy levers & calipers, so I'm assuming the Pioneer is therefore quite early. The more I notice about it, the more I like it. Looks like a really nicely made bike. BTW, can you recall how much your Jaguar was new in 1998? i haven't come across any Pioneer price lists and I'd be interested to know what the current equivalent price would be adjusted for inflation. I know the 1989 MTB cost the equivalent of £370 in today's money, and that is a Raleigh ATT-23 steel frame not Reynolds..

 

[raleighnut]

Update - the "accidental purchase" £10 Pioneer was duly extracted from aforementioned junk pile by the previous owner and collected. He said he wasn't even sure if he'd pulled out the right one, so had also extracted a junk BSO in a similar colour just in case it was the wrong bike - he couldn't tell the difference! Was initially slightly miffed as the rear brake lever is damaged, probably as a result of careless storage. My miffed-ness soon disappeared though, when I noticed the frame was lugged & brazed not welded, and I spotted the Reynolds 501 sticker on the seat tube! I wasn't expecting that at all, as I bet the vast majority of buyers opted for the standard frame rather than pay the extra for a Reynolds one. I'd also taken a bit of a chance on the size, not being able to check it properly. I'd guessed it to be a 21" which would fit OK, but it turns out to be a 23" and even better as I've got long legs. It all looks to be there, though both the Rigida alloy wheels need a bit of TLC as the spoke tensions are uneven and the rims are enough out of true to rub on the brake blocks, really could do with new tyres as well. Grinning like a Cheshire cat at my bargain and off out for a pint or three - any excuse for beer!

Nice.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

I've now found a Frame number stamped on the underside of the BB where the shifter cables are routed. There's no letter codes for which factory it was made at, just a 7-digit number beginning with a 5. Could this signify a 1995 build? As it's a Reynolds and says built in England on the seat tube I'm assuming it's an in-house Nottingham frame not a bought-in one.

 

[raleighnut]

I've now found a Frame number stamped on the underside of the BB where the shifter cables are routed. There's no letter codes for which factory it was made at, just a 7-digit number beginning with a 5. Could this signify a 1995 build? As it's a Reynolds and says built in England on the seat tube I'm assuming it's an in-house Nottingham frame not a bought-in one.

Nobody ever made sense of Raleigh frame numbers, not even Raleigh themselves.

I'd guess the frame was made in Nottingham possibly whilst Raleigh and Reynolds were owned by the same company Ti Investments/Ti tubes or whatever name the holding company traded under at the time (they also flogged off Brooks and Sturmey Archer))

 

[Rickshaw Phil]

What year do you reckon mine is then? It's a Pioneer Trail, which appears to be the top of the range spec, but it's an 18 speed (3 on the front, 6 on the rear), not the 21 speed I can find in the catalogues. I don't see any year in which the gear count and colour for the Trail match mine. Components look decent quality Shimano, the calipers being Altus alloy, not the black finish ones you see more commonly. Brake levers are also alloy not black/resin. My 1989 MTB also has alloy levers & calipers, so I'm assuming the Pioneer is therefore quite early. The more I notice about it, the more I like it. Looks like a really nicely made bike. BTW, can you recall how much your Jaguar was new in 1998? i haven't come across any Pioneer price lists and I'd be interested to know what the current equivalent price would be adjusted for inflation. I know the 1989 MTB cost the equivalent of £370 in today's money, and that is a Raleigh ATT-23 steel frame not Reynolds..

Not sure about the date of it. I've been browsing the Veteran Cycle Club library and can't find that exact one. I think '93 or '94 is most likely but for some reason the Trail version isn't illustrated in the catalogues for those years (unless I've just missed it). The '95 model had a similar spec to what you describe but a different colour scheme, then they changed to the welded frames across the range for '96.

I paid £250 for my Jaguar when new but I can't remember whether that included a discount because of it being a 1997 model (the invoice doesn't say).

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

I paid £250 for my Jaguar when new but I can't remember whether that included a discount because of it being a 1997 model (the invoice doesn't say).

£250 in 1998 is the equivalent of about £425 now adjusted for inflation! No wonder they are such nicely made bikes, they weren't actually that cheap when new. You can get 3-4 cheap BSO's now for the price of a Pioneer!

 

[raleighnut]

If I didn't have this,

I'd have a Pioneer (the Ridgeback has a Tange CrMo tube frame)

 

[Blue Hills]

, I try to keep my bike as close to original specification as possible and in so doing, keeping it as pure.........................................

Can't be bothered with that to be honest. A favourite bike has to be a slut go anywhere do anything kind of ride.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

If I didn't have this, I'd have a Pioneer (the Ridgeback has a Tange CrMo tube frame)

There's nothing stopping you from having both! I've been pleasantly surprised lately at how cheaply some pretty decent quality 80's/90's rigid frame bikes can be acquired if you are self-disciplined and bide your time for the bargains. It's almost like most bike buyers just can't be bothered with tweaking and greasing things and would rather get a horrible cheap brand new BSO than buy a decent used old bike and spend a few hours and a few quid on things like new tyres and tubes. There's some really nice older stuff out there which is seemingly unloved by the masses. I find the older stuff much more pleasing to the eye as well, the Aero/Carbon Fibre stuff doesn't do anything for me at all.

 

[raleighnut]

There's nothing stopping you from having both! I've been pleasantly surprised lately at how cheaply some pretty decent quality 80's/90's rigid frame bikes can be acquired if you are self-disciplined and bide your time for the bargains. It's almost like most bike buyers just can't be bothered with tweaking and greasing things and would rather get a horrible cheap brand new BSO than buy a decent used old bike and spend a few hours and a few quid on things like new tyres and tubes. There's some really nice older stuff out there which is seemingly unloved by the masses. I find the older stuff much more pleasing to the eye as well, the Aero/Carbon Fibre stuff doesn't do anything for me at all.

Eeerrrrrr I may own 9 bikes and the Trike already, plus there are Maz's 2.

I have built all but one myself from frames (often 'freebies') that each fulfil different roles. 4 of them are 80s/90s Raleighs and I generally spend around the £500 mark fitting them with quality components (think 105 or Deore level) and Brooks saddles (on 6 of em) and most have 'handlaced' wheels built to my spec by John at Bob Warner Cycles.

Can't be bothered with that to be honest. A favourite bike has to be a slut go anywhere do anything kind of ride.

That's pretty much how I describe my old Ridgeback, that'll do anything I ask of it and come back for more, I must confess though that I don't lock it up in town that much these days after finding out that the brand is one of the most 'attractive to tealeafs''

Break my heart to lose 'Fred'.

 

[avecReynolds531]

Thanks for the enjoyable & interesting thread

 

[Cycleops]

Nice thread bump @avecReynolds531

 

[Blue Hills]

Nice thread bump @avecReynolds531

Yes and it revealed to me that i had actually referred to my favourite bikes as sluts!
And reminded me that me and raleighnut share an affection for the same slut.