What defines a Vintage or Classic Bike?

[SkipdiverJohn]

This debate will of course have been had by anyone into old cars, or old anything else. At what point does something morph from being a cheap old hack to being "vintage" - and therefore appearing on eBay at inflated prices?
If something is of a long-established high quality and good design, is it "classic" from the time it leaves the factory, or do a number of years still have to pass?
Does it make any difference whether the bike was mass produced in many thousands or only built in their hundreds? Do most of the population of a given model of bike have to finish their days in the scrapyard before the few remaining ones achieve Vintage status?
What about the really cheap stuff - the budget brands and the outright BSOs. In 20 or 30 years, will some of todays much derided BSO machines miraculously cease to be BSO's and become "vintage"?

 

[Rickshaw Phil]

One of the definitions of classic is that it's typical of, or important to its time. Top quality bikes will always have their fans who will pay good money for examples of the machines they lusted after in their youth but couldn't afford. Decent quality but more ubiquitous cycles will also be collectable on the basis that "that's the first proper bike I owned" (I'll nominate the Dawes Kingpin - nothing terribly special but I loved mine and I'd like an example to add to my fleet).

BSO's??? Difficult to judge. It's like the Trabant, the Marina or the Viva for petrol heads. They were awful but there are people who loved them. Because most didn't though, they are now quite rare and collectable. I doubt BSOs will ever be properly valuable, but who knows, there may be a following at some point in the future?

 

[Threevok]

I agree with @Rickshaw Phil

I don't think Vintage and Excellence go hand in hand

Probably one of the worst ideas in the MTB world was GT I-Drive, yet they are well sort after and good examples fetch a high value at auctions

 

[raleighnut]

Vintage bikes - at least 'pre-war', Classic's well this is up there,

Although not in 'classic trim

 

[buzzy-beans]

But if you own a classic or vintage bike, shouldn't you do your damnedest to keep it pure?

The new breeds of bike with carbon or ally frames aren't for me and neither are their pedals, cranks or anything else, so for me, I try to keep my bike as close to original specification as possible and in so doing, keeping it as pure.........................................

 

[biggs682]

Tough question with a multitude of correct answers .

For me it's the attention to detail in the older machines that is interesting for sure and also knowing that some one took time and care assembling it .

Be it a mainstream model or a top end hand made one they all deserve to be looked after .

Then you have the people who want the same bike they had when they were a kid no matter what it was good or bad

The ones i don't understand are the ones that get restored to all the former glory then sit un used and it's not allowed to get dirty WHY ?

 

[HertzvanRental]

Tough question with a multitude of correct answers .

For me it's the attention to detail in the older machines that is interesting for sure and also knowing that some one took time and care assembling it .

Be it a mainstream model or a top end hand made one they all deserve to be looked after .

Then you have the people who want the same bike they had when they were a kid no matter what it was good or bad

The ones i don't understand are the ones that get restored to all the former glory then sit un used and it's not allowed to get dirty WHY ?

The last paragraph applies to all areas of "collection".
I used to be involved with classic motorcycles and knew of many a machine that would be trailered from show to show just to win prizes in the concourse events. I knew of one, a Vincent, I think that had no components in the engine, just the crank cases!!

 

[biggs682]

The last paragraph applies to all areas of "collection".
I used to be involved with classic motorcycles and knew of many a machine that would be trailered from show to show just to win prizes in the concourse events. I knew of one, a Vincent, I think that had no components in the engine, just the crank cases!!

That wouldn't surprise me

Many moons ago i had a car on show at the Brighton classic car show and people were amazed that i had driven it there and used it as my day to day transport

 

[Laurentius]

Perhaps a classic could just be defined as something that turns heads and attracts attention, which could be anything from a Raliegh chopper to a Penny Farthing, though generally speaking a classic anything, is something that has withstood the test of time by virtue of good design and aesthetics.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

But if you own a classic or vintage bike, shouldn't you do your damnedest to keep it pure?.........................................

It's a nice sentiment if it's still 100% original by the time you get your hands on it, and it's practical for you to use in that state. However, in the real world many old bikes (and old cars) are mongrels by the time they've had a dozen owners, and bits have been swapped out over the years to keep them running.
I would rather see an old mongrel vehicle kept in regular use with a different set of wheels/later engine etc, than for it to get scrapped or just mothballed and not enjoyed. You don't have to own concours condition old machines to have fun with them. In fact, for me, if something is not too precious then you are more likely to actually use it regularly without worry.

 

[bonzobanana]

Raleigh Chopper is very collectable but I think in bike terms its pretty bad really. I loved mine but it was designed to appeal to young riders of the time rather than actually be a very good bike I think. I think back in the seventies it was bought by the same type of idiot that buys a cheap dual suspension bike today. Something flashy for low money. The reason I'd want one is nostalgia really, most new bike designs are much improved over the old models. Making a connection with the past can have a feel good factor. Not that I think there is only one reason to buy a vintage bike but nostalgia certainly is a huge part of it I think.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

Raleigh Chopper is very collectable but I think in bike terms its pretty bad really. I loved mine but it was designed to appeal to young riders of the time rather than actually be a very good bike I think.

They were really terrible bikes with abominable handling. I rode friends ones and can still remember the pain from various shift lever "incidents" years later!

I think back in the seventies it was bought by the same type of idiot that buys a cheap dual suspension bike today. Something flashy for low money.

Yes, but only up to a point. The Chopper was more expensive in real terms back then than those horrible full-sus BSO monstrosities are today.

The reason I'd want one is nostalgia really, most new bike designs are much improved over the old models. Making a connection with the past can have a feel good factor. Not that I think there is only one reason to buy a vintage bike but nostalgia certainly is a huge part of it I think.

Maybe at the fancy/expensive end of the spectrum exotic materials have given better performance, but I don't really see much evidence of this when it comes to everyday mass-produced stuff. In fact, I'd say the build quality at the budget end 20 or 30 years ago was BETTER then than it is now as regards durability and components. A low-end 80's roadster like my Puch 3-speed is vastly superior to a modern BSO MTB/hybrid. The only downside is the poor wet braking from 26" x 1 3/8" steel rims.

 

[raleighnut]

They were really terrible bikes with abominable handling. I rode friends ones and can still remember the pain from various shift lever "incidents" years later!


Yes, but only up to a point. The Chopper was more expensive in real terms back then than those horrible full-sus BSO monstrosities are today.



Maybe at the fancy/expensive end of the spectrum exotic materials have given better performance, but I don't really see much evidence of this when it comes to everyday mass-produced stuff. In fact, I'd say the build quality at the budget end 20 or 30 years ago was BETTER then than it is now as regards durability and components. A low-end 80's roadster like my Puch 3-speed is vastly superior to a modern BSO MTB/hybrid. The only downside is the poor wet braking from 26" x 1 3/8" steel rims.

I got my wheelbuilder to lace up a pair of Aluminium 700c rims onto the original 85 Sturmey Archer 3spd rear and a Shimano hubdyno front I'd got kicking around in the shed. Another benefit was being able to ditch the bent steel brake calipers and fit a couple of Wiennman aluminium ones (again from the shed) a 500 on the front and an Alpha on the back. I also swapped the steel 'cottered' crank for a nice Stronglight square taper one.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

I like that. Very pretty. Nice colour and the two-tone tyres suit the frame.

 

[raleighnut]

I like that. Very pretty. Nice colour and the two-tone tyres suit the frame.

It looks even nicer now I've fitted a honey Brooks B67s to it, just haven't got around to taking a picture of it with that on yet.
Can't decide whether to fit Mudguards or not (I've got the original ones and the Chainguard but TBH they're pretty beat up)