Well this is controversial

[EltonFrog]

CF this and that is not really the wonder material that it is made out to be. It is just like fiber glass. It is mostly plastic resin reinforced with either glass fibers or carbon fibers. So basically bikes, carbon wheels, and airplanes are mainly plastic.

What’s your point?

 

[rydabent]

What’s your point?

Most things made out of carbon fiber is over priced and over rated. When someone tells me this and that is made out of carbon fiber, they think I and everyone should stand in awe of it. I am not!!!!

 

[EltonFrog]

Most things made out of carbon fiber is over priced and over rated. When someone tells me this and that is made out of carbon fiber, they think I and everyone should stand in awe of it. I am not!!!!

You are of course entitled to your opinion but I'm quite certain there isn't anyone on the entire internet interested in it.

 

[Punkawallah]

You are of course entitled to your opinion but I'm quite certain there isn't anyone on the entire internet interested in it.

I’m interested in it.

 

[ColinJ]

I’m interested in it.

And you were definitely on the internet when you posted!

 

[wafter]

You are of course entitled to your opinion but I'm quite certain there isn't anyone on the entire internet interested in it.

I agree with @rydabent's position tbh. Every material has strengths and weaknesses which influence its suitability for various applications; depending on context. It is, at best frustrating; at worst downright dangerous when marketing muppets seek to trample these subtleties down into a simply binary "x is better than y" argument to drive sales.

Carbon fibre reinforced plastic is a remarkable material material in many ways and will outperform pretty much everything else in certain applications. It does, however also have many inevitable shortcomings - which IMO make it borderline unsuitable for safety-critical consumer goods.

 

[Dogtrousers]

marketing muppets seek to trample these subtleties down into a simply binary "x is better than y" argument

Or indeed, Cyclechat muppets who do the same thing

 

[rydabent]

You are of course entitled to your opinion but I'm quite certain there isn't anyone on the entire internet interested in it.

They should be, since they are getting ripped off by the "wonder" material, in many cases.

 

[Alex321]

They should be, since they are getting ripped off by the "wonder" material, in many cases.

Really?

Any actual reasoning behind that?

 

[Time Waster]

There's only one material that's a wonder material. Steel is real man!

Seriously, gas pipe bike anyone? Rusty brompton just out of warranty anyone?

As a posrgraduate materials engineer I remember Ashby and those material selection graphs used to select which material might be suitable for any use. Anyone seen them? It sometimes throws up a material for a use that you'd be surprised about. Anyway, the reason why cf gets used is that someone, somewhere will have designed it using similar material properties and selection criteria. Engineers are perfectly capable of designing good or bad cf bikes. Also production methods can be good or bad. Imho it's a good material if used and made well but has issues if not. That's the same as steel, alu alloy, Ti and stainless steel. Heck even bamboo and wood too.

I find all this talk about x material being bad and y material is good is a bit daft. It's simply not that simple.

 

[KneesUp]

I really don’t care much what materials other people choose for their bikes, although I’m glad that there are bodies that ensure they meet a minimum safety standard.

I’m unlikely to choose a CF bike for myself though, for reasons largely in-line with the article to do with it being in some ways delicate. I’ve owned one bike with CF forks. I took it on holiday on the bike rack, as I do with all my bikes. On the journey it shifted a little and the leg of the fork was touching the kid’s bike resulting in the top layer of colour and some of the CF underneath wearing away over a few hours of driving. I’ve only ridden it a handful of times since - I imagine the design spec is such that it can cope with the damage, but I’m not certain, and I like my teeth.

 

[wafter]

I find all this talk about x material being bad and y material is good is a bit daft. It's simply not that simple.

As with any material it's a question of suitability for the application in hand - IMO something that's prone to brittle failure, exhibits very low strain to failure, is susceptible to impact damage and is difficult to inspect without specialist tools is not an appropriate material for safety-critical consumer goods.

What irritates me is, as usual the way materials are up-sold to punters in a dumbed-down, marketing-driven argument as simply being "better" when a lot of the time they're not. The requirements for, treatment of and expectations from a pro's racing bike are potentially very different to those of a casual rider with little technical knowledge or tooling, and who'll probably just sling the bike in the shed amongst a load of other detritus at the end of a ride.

I really don’t care much what materials other people choose for their bikes, although I’m glad that there are bodies that ensure they meet a minimum safety standard.

I’m unlikely to choose a CF bike for myself though, for reasons largely in-line with the article to do with it being in some ways delicate. I’ve owned one bike with CF forks. I took it on holiday on the bike rack, as I do with all my bikes. On the journey it shifted a little and the leg of the fork was touching the kid’s bike resulting in the top layer of colour and some of the CF underneath wearing away over a few hours of driving. I’ve only ridden it a handful of times since - I imagine the design spec is such that it can cope with the damage, but I’m not certain, and I like my teeth.

Indeed; I feel much the same. It's unfortunate / ironic how much CFRP gets used for forks (I guess because it's an application that saves a lot of weight and has a noticeable influence on ride feel), given how devastating a failure in this area can be. While the industry remains unsurprisingly quiet barring the odd recall, if you look there's a steady undercurrent of both horror stories relating to composite forks failing, and analysis of said forks that often reveals potentially critical defects.

 

[Jameshow]

As with any material it's a question of suitability for the application in hand - IMO something that's prone to brittle failure, exhibits very low strain to failure, is susceptible to impact damage and is difficult to inspect without specialist tools is not an appropriate material for safety-critical consumer goods.

What irritates me is, as usual the way materials are up-sold to punters in a dumbed-down, marketing-driven argument as simply being "better" when a lot of the time they're not. The requirements for, treatment of and expectations from a pro's racing bike are potentially very different to those of a casual rider with little technical knowledge or tooling, and who'll probably just sling the bike in the shed amongst a load of other detritus at the end of a ride.



Indeed; I feel much the same. It's unfortunate / ironic how much CFRP gets used for forks (I guess because it's an application that saves a lot of weight and has a noticeable influence on ride feel), given how devastating a failure in this area can be. While the industry remains unsurprisingly quiet barring the odd recall, if you look there's a steady undercurrent of both horror stories relating to composite forks failing, and analysis of said forks that often reveals potentially critical defects.

Re forks it's usually the bond that's the issue.
CF throughout are probably stronger than anything else.

Bonding alu to CF has its issues.

 

[Venod]

I think you are correct, when I crashed and both fork legs snapped clean off on my Cannondale, it was at the junction with the aluminium crown, it hasn't put me of riding carbon though.

 

[wafter]

Re forks it's usually the bond that's the issue.
CF throughout are probably stronger than anything else.

Bonding alu to CF has its issues.

Yes, bonding dissimilar materials is always going to be a potential weak point... however as per the rest - define "strong" - the "strength" of a material can vary significantly depending on context..