Weight training

[Andrew_P]

I'm not offering you advice mate. I'm simply telling you that the evidence for performance improvement through leg strength training is not out there. If you think it is, then you have mis-read the studies. Riding fast/hard for a long time is all about sustainable power (hopefully we can agree on that). The typical leg forces required for endurance cycling are already well within the capability of most people with normal leg function. The hard bit is not pushing the pedals, it is pushing the pedals hard for 20 minutes, 40 minutes, one hour, three hours or six hours, depending on what you are doing. To do that requires aerobic fitness, not leg strength.

So the study on professional cyclist taken during the off and in season where half did their normal training the other half normal training with added strength training, you are suggesting the other half should have increased their cycling by the amount of hours the others spent doing weights?

So one ADDS anaerobic resistance training while the other INCREASES their aerobic and the net result would be they would both see the same improvements? How would the other half avoid overtraining their cardiovascular system?

 

[Citius]

I can remember this very same argument being espoused by yellow and black and dusty bin with the same inability to listen and the same propensity to segue a question about weight training into big heavy weights' and strength training and the assumption that strength and muscle size are one and the same.

And yet you still haven't managed to outline how weight training can improve cycling performance. If you can do that, I'm all ears.

By the way - I know the difference between muscle size and strength. Strength has been defined in this thread several times. Muscle size is - well, it's simply that.

 

[Citius]

So the study on professional cyclist taken during the off and in season where half did their normal training the other half normal training with added strength training, you are suggesting the other half should have increased their cycling by the amount of hours the others spent doing weights?

Correct. To be clear though, the study references 'competitive' cyclists, not 'professional'. There doesn't appear to be a definition of what 'competitive' means in this respect. But they are not identified as pros.

So one ADDS anaerobic resistance training while the other INCREASES their aerobic and the net result would be they would both see the same improvements? How would the other half avoid overtraining their cardiovascular system?

There's no evidence that would be the net result - that is just your assumption. And why do you think that would amount to over-training? You could say the same thing about the weights incurring muscle fatigue.

Anyway, here's a bit more reading for you:

This study - which shows that doing strength/weight training actually decreases cycling performance: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19826297

And this is a pretty good assessment of many of the studies which you have probably been searching for this afternoon: http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/fitness/?id=strengthstern

If you're still not convinved though, all you have to do is explain why you think a rider's legs - which can already push several times their own bodyweight - need to be stronger in order to push 20kg/f per revolution up alpe d'huez.

 

[Andrew_P]

That post you lifted off a 2011 thread on Bike Radar forums, the thread you lifted it from it is clear who you are and you have not posted again on Bike Radar using that user name since 2012. Similar posts you made on upgrading wheels in 2011, similar to the ones made on this forum this week Do you not get bored of trolling cycling forums under different guises?

 

[Citius]

That post you lifted off a 2011 thread on Bike Radar forums, the thread you lifted it from it is clear who you are and you have not posted again on Bike Radar using that user name since 2012. Similar posts you made on upgrading wheels in 2011, similar to the ones made on this forum this week Do you not get bored of trolling cycling forums under different guises?

The thread I lifted that quote from - I have not posted on it. I know who you think I am - but I'm not. Not that it should even matter one way or the other. I'm just posting information here in response to a discussion, just like you are. If you can't deal or argue with it, that's your problem. I haven't been rude or abusive here - in fact I would say in this respect at least, the attitude problem belongs to you, not me.

It's commonplace on the internet for people with no argument to begin ad hominem attacks instead. Well done on falling into that tired old stereotype. I'm politely answering all your responses. It's a shame you can't do the same.

 

[barachus]

If you're still not convinved though, all you have to do is explain why you think a rider's legs - which can already push several times their own bodyweight - need to be stronger in order to push 20kg/f per revolution up alpe d'huez.

I dont even pretend to know anything on this topic, but this comment has a ring of common sense

still, i am an advocate of gym work to look good, who cares about the marginal gains, no reason to look like a famine victim unless you are a proffessional cyclist and being paid to look like a ghost

 

[poynedexter]

heres MY take on this.

as a racing cyclist, i train to produce more power over longer periods. currently my 1 hr threshold power is 283 watts. if i ride above this level then i cant recycle lactate quick enough, and after a period, i get tired and struggle to hold power.
if i ride at 283 watts with 95-100 rpm i "feel" ok
if i ride at 283 watts with 80 rpm i "feel" as if i'm not strong enough to maintain this power
if i ride at 283 watts with 60 rpm, i'm burning matches very quickly and i'm gonna stop soon.

the question is how can i make this 283 watts into 300 and beyond.

step 1. build mitochondria. improve the size of your engine (heart stroke volume) (base train)
step 2. tune those mitchondria (intervals based on 283 watts at different rpms)
step 3. rest
step 4. eat lots of good food.

if you race or TT, you will soon find out that what you "think" is a lack of leg strength is really a lack of aerobic capacity. my last race i saw my max hr a few times and got dropped doing +100 rpm. never once did i feel weak

 

[robbo891]

Wow! what can i say? My post has gone mental lol. I dont even know what to say anymore!
I dont compete so therefore dont see any huge need to improve. I cycle to enjoy it and im in good shape and I dont hang about either.
I now train my legs, call it strength training, fitness training, call it whatever you wish but im pushing iron simple as that lol.
Main reasons - to make them as good as the top half (vain yes, but im getting married on a beach)
and they need strengthening as recommended by my physio and need stretching and made more flexible as told by my gym instructor for shortened hamstrings. Job done as far as I am concerned.

Citius I think your bonkers mate and have far to much spare time lol! Fair play though and your entitled to opinion! (all in good jest fella)

 

[Citius]

Citius I think your bonkers mate

So because I put forward a logical argument - a view shared by a majority of sports scientists, together with the information to support it - you think I'm bonkers?

I want to train like a cyclist rather than a weightlifter!

So you've obviously changed your mind since posting this?

 

[robbo891]

seriously dude, after your logical argument (and very in depth it was) im passed caring tbh.

 

[Andrew_P]

seriously dude, after your logical argument (and very in depth it was) im passed caring tbh.

 

[Citius]

seriously dude, after your logical argument (and very in depth it was) im passed caring tbh.

Apologies fella. If all you wanted was for people to agree with you, you should have mentioned it earlier.

 

[crazyjoe101]

Cycling is my main sport, but I don't compete and going the fastest and furthest I possibly can is not the top of my list as a cyclist; that said, I do like the occasional long or fast ride and I like to improve little by little without being wrecked all the time due to training.
I have lifted weights in the past and have started again recently, I am very weak and I don't lift anything heavy, at the minute I'm just focusing on proper form before I add a little bit more weight until I stop at a comfortable amount. I'm lifting weight to gain a modest amount of strength and to aid fat loss; I do not expect that it will help me at all on the bike, in fact I will be limiting the amount I lift as I know the extra weight isn't going to help me.

Aside from whether or not training my legs with weights (all other factors the same) will help or hinder my performance when on the bike, I will not be doing it as the recovery time after training legs with weights long enough to stop me from doing any serious riding in that period. Assuming there is a benefit - it certainly would not outweigh the benefit to be had from the ride it replaces, and that for me is the key point in the whole argument this thread grew into. Pro cyclists have all the time in the world to train and improve. Most of us cycle as a hobby and if we're going to observe proper recovery, a leg training session is likely to replace a 'hard' bike ride, and I know which out of the two woud be more beneficial to my cycling performance. Sure, a specific type of weight training might give me some benefit, but not when it is replacing a bike ride.

 

[scouserinlondon]

I've been watching this thread with interest. After more than six months off the bike due to a new job and family commitments I had put on a fair bit of weight. I have never had much success with the gym where I'd done a mix of cardio and light weights. However recently I've been doing a more concerted programme of weight training. With increased weight and decreased reps and all that malarkey. Anyway. I've certainly increased the amount I can lift by quite some margin. And while I have lost a decent chunk of weight my body composition has changed quite dramatically with loads of belly and arse fat melting away (still more to go I just love beer!) and my legs have grown a fair bit. I'm about to get back on the bike after a year off and it's going to be really interesting to see how I do. I know my lung capacity will be the biggest blocker, as beyond long walks and running around with the kids I've done no serious cardio. But I wonder whether the improved power to weight ratio will have any impact whatsoever.

Probably not reading this.

 

[crazyjoe101]

Well obviously it will help you a bit having some power in your legs but in quite a limited way. The exact muscles used in your weights excercises won't be the same as those used when cycling and vise verca. The main thing is that I doubt lifting helps over any sort of distance really, it probably only increases explosive power.