Weight again

[Pauluk]

If you compare a 10 stone guy and a 20 stone guy going up a hill, they might use similar power rates, but the light guy will get up there so much quicker that he also has to pace himself less.

Excessive weight will obviously make a difference in the range you quote. Now compare an 11 stone rider with a 14 stone rider, the result may not be a clear cut as you think. The 14 stone rider may have had more hill practice and may in fact be stronger, he may have a bigger heart or better lung capacity!

Generally speaking the less over weight guy will have the advantage, all other things being equal, but don't expect to automatically double your speed or notice massive differences on the hills because you have lost some weight, it doesn't always follow. There are other things to take into account, like practice and training.

 

[Nebulous]

Of course the 14 stone cyclist could be fitter and more practiced, but his extra 3 stone still give him a tremendous handicap.

Think about a 85kg rider putting out about 250 watts on a reasonably long climb. Assume a target output of 4 watts per kilo. Now he's got an option to reach that. Either add 90 watts to his current output, which is a big ask, or lose 10 kilos and add 50 watts, which should be much more achievable. As I said before I've made some good gains by pushing hills and working at it - however realistically I'm only going to get close to what I think is possible if I combine that with some weight loss.

We may be slightly at cross purposes here. I'm quite old, just turned 50, and have a lot of ground to make up on people who have been cycling for a long time, however my targets are for speed and competition - not leisure cycling. I had kind of assumed the OP was asking about the same.

 

[Standoff]

Thanks for the replies. It would be interesting for an eleven stone, fit cyclist to strap two stone to his bike and compare his times up a hill with and without the ballast.
I am getting the impression a two stone weight loss will enable me to climb much better so that is my aim. At least then I will be able to justify a new lighter bike!

 

[Beaker39]

From my experience you will gain more in climbing performance by increasing your power. Thats not to say losing some weight will also help but the gains will be greater by increasing power over weight loss.....well that was my experience anyway.

I recently lost one and half st for a trip to the Alps (was 15st now 13.5st) but this was just to make things a little less painful as opposed to increasing my climbing performance.

 

[Sittingduck]

Surely it's both power and weight that are key, when climbing...

There is a 2 mile 500ft hill that I used to ride up at around 7mph. I now ride up it at 12mph. I have lost a lot of weight and perhaps gained a little power but the weight has been more telling. Hard to measure the power change but weight changes are easy to track. Don't underestimate how much more difficult it is to climb the same hill (at the same pace), if you are a fair bit heavier. The difference is night and day, imho.

 

[Nebulous]

Thanks for the replies. It would be interesting for an eleven stone, fit cyclist to strap two stone to his bike and compare his times up a hill with and without the ballast.

I sort of did that, though as I said I'm neither 11 stone, nor was I particularly fit. My first organised event was the Etape Caledonia last year. About 6 weeks beforehand I did a 2 day tour taking in a large chunk of the course. I wasn't very well organised, didn't have a touring bike, only my Allez roadbike, which does the majority of my miles, and carried all my stuff in a backpack. I also didn't quite get the travelling light thing, so it weighed about 9 kilos.

6 weeks later when I did the event I was buzzing with adrenaline, really hyped up, and couldn't believe how easy the hills were. Now that might have been partly the excitement of the day, but I'm sure being 9 kilos lighter contributed!

 

[Pauluk]

We may be slightly at cross purposes here. I'm quite old, just turned 50

You're not quite old Ar to be 50 again

 

[MrJamie]

Excessive weight will obviously make a difference in the range you quote. Now compare an 11 stone rider with a 14 stone rider, the result may not be a clear cut as you think. The 14 stone rider may have had more hill practice and may in fact be stronger, he may have a bigger heart or better lung capacity!

Generally speaking the less over weight guy will have the advantage, all other things being equal, but don't expect to automatically double your speed or notice massive differences on the hills because you have lost some weight, it doesn't always follow. There are other things to take into account, like practice and training.

Yeah, im not far off double the weight of a guy i cycle and run with, but weve always been similar speeds allround, partly i think from training to the same level, but partly because of vastly different and so incomparable body types. From the point of view Standoff was asking though, dropping pounds must make a reasonable difference or people wouldnt be paying so much to shave grams off their bikes?

Im sure someone whos been cycle touring and camping, with full panniers and such would be able to explain exactly what different it made, particularly to hills.

 

[jdtate101]

I've lost 6st in the last 12months and it has made a huge difference to my climbing ability. My regular training climb is about 2miles long at 5% avg with a 12% kicker at the end. Lost over 6mins from my personal best over that 12 months. Sure, part of that is down to better technique, better fitness as well as the reduced weight, but it all adds up to a better vertical experience. Climbing is one of those things you really need to do a lot of to get better at, as it's all down to power to weight. Whilst your weight goes down, you should also work on upping your power. Doing simple exercises such as squats (using just your body weight) will help improve your muscular endurance and strength.

 

[Standoff]

Was Struggling to carry a toolbox to the car yesterday and was curious as to what it weighed. I have lost two stone and want to lose another two. The toolbox weighed two stone one pound! Can't believe just how heavy two stone is. Will surely hammer you in the climbs! Upped the diet regime today.

 

[Nosaj]

Re climbing it should be clear cut with power to weight ratio being key a car with 180 BHP will never be quicker than a 100bhp motorbike (or will it?)

If person a was 70kg put out 300 watts power to weight would be 4.29 per kilo
If person b was 85kg put out 300 watts power to weight would be 3.52 per kilo

If person a and person b followed the exact same training plan then on paper person a. should beat person b hands down BUT....

If persons B ability to suffer, passion, determination, mental attitutude is different to person A. person a may end up winning each time.

EDIT: If Person B then lost 15kg and upped his wattage by 20 but Person a sorted out their non physiological limitations would Person B win - I don't know

I am currently reading Cav's auto B and in it he states that his numbers almost told him he shouldn't even be a pro but he is mainly for non physiological reasons

Losing weight; on paper should help climbing and speed but it might not what would happen if the weight reduction led to a drop in wattage ? there are so many other factors aside from physiological that the debate just can run on and on

As regards the topic subject weight loss and getting that last bit off strict diet and macro nutrients are key and getting the ratio's right (for an example see livestrong they have a food diary and macro nutrient calculator). This involves a hell of a lot of faffing around and if like me you enjoy a cake or bacon sarnie after the club run and do not want to be as anal as a bodybuilder (food tracking wise) or you just cannot be bothered to input everything you eat into a computer programme then losing that last bit is very hard indeed.

 

[Standoff]

But all things being equal...if I drop two stone of lard I reckon it will make a fairly big difference.

 

[Nosaj]

But all things being equal...if I drop two stone of lard I reckon it will make a fairly big difference.

Yes and no. If you strapped that toolbox to your bike and rode up a hill then back down and took it off then rode it again that would give you a very good idea as to what it would be like losing 2 stone immediately and maintaining the wattage but things are always slightly more subtle than that.

Its also important how you lose that two stone and unfortunately most of us want to do it quickly that normally relates to a drastic calorie deficit. Say for eg you went to a 1000 calorie max intake for six - eight weeks you would most probably lose most if not all and more of that 2 stone but by losing it quickly like that you may find that you lose some power so you may end up with a reduction in watts commensurate to the offset in weight putting you almost in the exact same position climbing wise as you were before the weight loss. Except now you look better in a mankini

If you were able to maintain your new weight and then train back up to your current wattage that is when you will see the big difference. But you would also see a difference in your climbing ability if you increased your wattage and maintained your current weight.

So yes weight loss will help as being lighter you will need to fight the force of gravity less but weight loss in isolation may not equate to the staggering difference you expect.

 

[BrumJim]

Interestingly, if we got our friend gb155 here, and ballasted his body up to his starting weight when he got on his first bike (post childhood), I'm not convinced that he would manage to climb the same hills that he was wheezing up back-in-the-day. So that makes him less fit now than he was then?

 

[Standoff]

The last two stone took four months by diet and exercise. I doubt I'm less powerful now and hopefully by the time the next two goes I'll still be as powerful!

Even if I'm not, at least I'll look better in cycling shorts!